Actor, presenter and writer Robert Llewellyn, famous for playing the part of Kryten in the science-fiction comedy “Red Dwarf,” joins us as we discuss robots gone rogue, electric vehicle nightmares, and creepy companions.
All this and much much more can be found in the latest edition of the “Smashing Security” podcast, hosted by cybersecurity veterans Graham Cluley and Carole Theriault.
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Anyone could come up with a multiplicity of scenarios of utter damnation, horror, end of the world nightmare.
There's a child running across the road and there's an old lady walking the other way. She's old, should you save the child?
Ah yeah, but the old lady is pushing a pram with a baby in it.
And then on the other side of the road there's a man who's carrying a huge box of explosives that will wipe out an entire town if you hit him. You know, just calm down, love.
There's a child running across the road and there's an old lady walking the other way. She's old, should you save the child?
Ah yeah, but the old lady is pushing a pram with a baby in it.
And then on the other side of the road there's a man who's carrying a huge box of explosives that will wipe out an entire town if you hit him. You know, just calm down, love.
Smashing Security, Episode 217: Would You Cuddle This Revolting Robot?
With Carole Theriault and Graham Cluley.
Hello, hello, and welcome to Smashing Security, Episode 217. My name's Graham Cluley.
And I'm Carole Theriault.
And Carole, we are joined this week by a very special guest, someone who hasn't been on the show before.
Very exciting.
A bit of a polymath, a bit of a man who's done everything. He's made crazy inventions on scrap heaps. He's dressed up as a robot.
He's had H's on his forehead, made it sexy.
No, no, he didn't have the H. That was Chris Barry who wore the H. Oh no! It's a different guy. And he runs Fully Charged, all about EV vehicles. You know he plays Kryten.
Okay, it's Robert Llewellyn. Hello, Robert.
Okay, it's Robert Llewellyn. Hello, Robert.
Hello.
I'm very, very flattered that you thought I was the fabulously handsome Chris Barry with an H on his forehead.
But I'm the slightly ugly, square-headed machine that looks like a badly chewed rubber tip pencil.
But I'm the slightly ugly, square-headed machine that looks like a badly chewed rubber tip pencil.
It was a bad joke. I was hoping Graham would give me much more shit for not doing any research, but he didn't. He actually carried me along quite sweetly.
Yeah, no, that's very kind of you. And also, I think there's two corrections I need to make. One is I didn't make anything on Scrapheap. I watched—
You oversold.
I watched talented— but yeah, I watched very talented people make amazing things.
I loved that show.
No, it was great fun.
I did watch Robot Wars for a bit, but Scrapheap Challenge I thought was just—
My son has been addicted to it under lockdown. We've been watching it on All 4, going through the different seasons.
Isn't it amazing that that's possible? Yes. Yeah. Do you get any residuals?
Residuals from that?
I do not get any residuals. It was— it was— I could tell you the bitter, vicious story of it, but it's too boring.
But yeah, no, back in those days, you got a buyout and they gave you £112.
But yeah, no, back in those days, you got a buyout and they gave you £112.
Oh, is that per episode?
No, that's for the entire series, every single one you've ever made, you know. Oh, thank you for that, that's great.
I'll go to Starbucks.
Yeah, I'll go to Starbucks and buy a really big cake.
Well, hopefully things are working out better for you now with— well, Red Dwarf gets revived every now and then, doesn't it?
Red Dwarf, we still make it. I mean, we've— There's a Red Dwarf on the cards.
I mean, I can say that now because there's absolutely no— there's no contract signed, there's nothing, but we've all agreed to do it. There is a script, they want to make it.
So I mean, whether, you know— but this is always the way with Red Dwarf.
My wife, who's put up with Red Dwarf for the last 32 years, she goes, oh, you've always said that you're going to be doing it. I said, yeah, but we always have done it.
Yeah, but not for years, and I have to hear about it.
I mean, I can say that now because there's absolutely no— there's no contract signed, there's nothing, but we've all agreed to do it. There is a script, they want to make it.
So I mean, whether, you know— but this is always the way with Red Dwarf.
My wife, who's put up with Red Dwarf for the last 32 years, she goes, oh, you've always said that you're going to be doing it. I said, yeah, but we always have done it.
Yeah, but not for years, and I have to hear about it.
She watched every show, or no?
No. No. She has been in one. She played the mechanoid Camille in one episode. And she was very good in it. Yeah, that was a long time ago.
I can't remember that one. Did you get it on? Did you plug your USB ports together or anything like that?
We actually, because we'd been together quite a few years, it wasn't a fresh rope. We didn't meet on the set. Right, no, no, no. That would have been quite weird.
But we did try snogging with rubber heads on, and it's just not right. It just wasn't good. It didn't work. Nothing, there was nothing there.
But we did try snogging with rubber heads on, and it's just not right. It just wasn't good. It didn't work. Nothing, there was nothing there.
And of course, these days you're very much the power behind Fully Charged, which is a YouTube channel. And I don't know what else, but it's all about EV vehicles.
I've just bought an EV vehicle in the last couple of months.
I've just bought an EV vehicle in the last couple of months.
I just want to correct you on that because what you're actually saying then is electric vehicle vehicle, because an EV is an electric vehicle.
Oh, yes.
Oh, goodness. Sorry to be so picky.
It's like saying PIN number, isn't it?
We all need to get an education.
Personal identification PIN number. Yes, that's the sort of thing I'd say all the time. No, but yes, it is. It is not just about electric vehicles.
It's about really the energy transition that the world is going through, which is really fascinating and a huge topic. And it is an enormous change, an enormous challenge.
And it's not plain sailing. And there isn't one simple answer. But there's a lot going on. It's quite baffling and dizzying.
It's about really the energy transition that the world is going through, which is really fascinating and a huge topic. And it is an enormous change, an enormous challenge.
And it's not plain sailing. And there isn't one simple answer. But there's a lot going on. It's quite baffling and dizzying.
So first, let's thank this week's sponsor, 1Password. Its support helps us give you this show for free. So coming up on today's show are robots special. Graham, what do you have?
Well, I'm going to be talking about drunken robots on the rampage.
Okay, scary story. Robert, what are you covering today?
The hidden cyber risks in electric vehicles.
And I'm heading to Japan to check out the new robots that are there to help us deal with things like loneliness.
All this and much more coming up on this episode of Smashing Security.
All this and much more coming up on this episode of Smashing Security.
Now, chums, chums, do you remember being a student? Do you remember those crazy wild times?
Yeah, it wasn't that long ago for me.
I just point out that I knew students, I met them, but I never was one. But I know the— I get the basic theory of what studenting is.
Oh yeah, good, good.
I tend to think that if you remember being a student, you probably weren't doing it properly because students— the students who used to be around me were largely drunk.
You know, they weren't really necessarily composmentous all the time. Sharing house with drunken students, it was crazy.
They would come home after a night on the tiles, crashing into furniture, reeling around, making a mess of the place, peeing in the sink.
I tend to think that if you remember being a student, you probably weren't doing it properly because students— the students who used to be around me were largely drunk.
You know, they weren't really necessarily composmentous all the time. Sharing house with drunken students, it was crazy.
They would come home after a night on the tiles, crashing into furniture, reeling around, making a mess of the place, peeing in the sink.
You were hiding in the cupboard.
Yes, very delicate little flower that I am. Yeah. Well, drunkenness, it turns out, we found out this week, is not limited to students because robots can be drunk as well.
Oh God, this is tenuous. This is gonna be tenuous, isn't it?
No, no, no, no.
I can tell. No, no, I'm ready, I'm ready. I'm ready.
You played Kryten for many years, as you've just said, maybe up to 30 years or so.
Yes.
In Red Dwarf, Robert. I can't remember, does Kryten have some sort of vacuum or sucking capability at all? Is there an attachment on Kryten?
He does. I mean, it depends what series you watch. 'Cause there's some bad— He's had various groin attachments. He can carry various stuff.
He has an exhaust fan in an area, a sort of exhaust port. So it's got a grill there. He generates some heat, rear end. So that's a slightly alarming thing.
But yeah, I don't know about that. But he has been drunk in one episode. He got very drunk. And I can't remember now.
I cannot remember because that was recorded in 1989, probably before some of your listeners were born. So I cannot now recall what made him drunk, but he did get very drunk.
He has an exhaust fan in an area, a sort of exhaust port. So it's got a grill there. He generates some heat, rear end. So that's a slightly alarming thing.
But yeah, I don't know about that. But he has been drunk in one episode. He got very drunk. And I can't remember now.
I cannot remember because that was recorded in 1989, probably before some of your listeners were born. So I cannot now recall what made him drunk, but he did get very drunk.
I'm not thinking of Kryten so much at the moment. I'm thinking more of the Roomba vacuum cleaners, the robot vacuum cleaners made by that company iRobot.
Have they been guzzling the beer in the fridge?
No, they haven't been breaking into the fridge as far as I know. Although, you know, there are obviously IoT-enabled fridges, which maybe could be subverted.
No, instead, as I remember, the iRobot movie, wasn't it a Philip K. Dick story originally?
No, instead, as I remember, the iRobot movie, wasn't it a Philip K. Dick story originally?
I can't remember. Yeah, it's based on a Philip K. Dick. I think so, yeah.
I think so.
Asimov story, wasn't it?
Oh, one of those, one of those.
Yeah. Guys.
But it was— Have we just been outspotted by you, Carole? Is that what you've just pointed out? Yes!
I'm looking it up to make sure I'm not lying or misremembering.
Anyway, it just seemed strange.
Yes, I'm right.
So I remember the movie where I'm pretty sure the robots go evil.
So I wouldn't necessarily want the evil company making the Roomba vacuum cleaners, but they have just pushed out a firmware update to Roomba vacuum cleaners.
So I wouldn't necessarily want the evil company making the Roomba vacuum cleaners, but they have just pushed out a firmware update to Roomba vacuum cleaners.
Right.
Firmware update version 3.12.8. And it is causing some problems for users of the i7 and S9 Roomba vacuum cleaners.
Okay, can we back up first? How would one normally do a firmware update on these things?
Ah, well, yes, exactly. It's interesting. I haven't told you this yet, but I have just in the last week or so bought myself a robot vacuum cleaner. I know.
I can't believe you. You know what I'm going to say, aren't you? So Graham's moved to this flat where he's got hardwood floors. I said, why don't you get yourself a Roomba?
He goes, Carole, that's a ridiculous thing to do. I need the exercise. Why wouldn't I vacuum? Of course I'm going to vacuum.
He goes, Carole, that's a ridiculous thing to do. I need the exercise. Why wouldn't I vacuum? Of course I'm going to vacuum.
I can handle this stuff. Classic. Yeah. Classic.
It turned out sweeping just wasn't doing the job. So I have invested a few shekels in— now I haven't got a Roomba.
I've got another type of robot vacuum cleaner, which is cheaper, but it has the benefit that it's uploading my floor plans to some server based in China.
So they know all their way around my house now.
I've got another type of robot vacuum cleaner, which is cheaper, but it has the benefit that it's uploading my floor plans to some server based in China.
So they know all their way around my house now.
Yeah.
So, but anyway, this update, which has come out for the Roomba, has caused their vacuum cleaners to spin around, bump into furniture. They're cleaning in strange patterns.
People are complaining on the forums. They're getting stuck in the middle of the floor.
They aren't able either to make it home to their charger, because what they do is they normally vacuum and they're quite good these days compared to 20 years ago.
They do their vacuuming and then they return home to recharge and sometimes to empty themselves as well.
People are complaining on the forums. They're getting stuck in the middle of the floor.
They aren't able either to make it home to their charger, because what they do is they normally vacuum and they're quite good these days compared to 20 years ago.
They do their vacuuming and then they return home to recharge and sometimes to empty themselves as well.
Poop.
And this update has caused them to reel around people's homes as though they were drunk, as though they've taken acid.
You know, you're a little bit speciesist, I think, if I can call a robot a species. There is a pandemic going on. Of course the Roomba's suffering as well.
It's probably been asked to vacuum way more. There's people in the house everywhere. It's stressed out.
It's probably been asked to vacuum way more. There's people in the house everywhere. It's stressed out.
It's probably got a mask on, so it's not quite sure where it is. Exactly!
Could be that.
Roombas have been under lockdown throughout. They're used to staying at home, Carole. They don't go down the road.
Yeah, they should be used to it.
You're not used to the entire family making mess constantly.
That is a point, actually. There's going to be a lot more density of mess in the house, 'cause people are in it all the time.
It's probably complaining to its other Roomba buddies, like, "I used to empty once a week. It's now daily!" Yeah.
I'm desperately trying not to constantly harp on about damn electric cars.
I don't want to talk about them, but— The Tesla does update over the air and it can do it, and it usually does it at night.
So you get in the morning and it goes, oh, you have new software available. And you kind of look at it and it's all marvelous. And 99% of the time it's been amazing.
You just go, oh my God, that's better. Oh, they moved that, that works now. I can see where that is, all that stuff. But there was an update for their maps.
They use Google Maps in Teslas and it works very well, but they updated them.
And there were jokes going around because the joke was that you put a destination and it would work out your route. It just went ridiculous.
It wasn't slightly off or, well, I could go a quicker way. No, it went completely barking mad. It went all over the place. So there's a road near me called the Fosse Way. It's Roman.
It's been there a long time. Guess what? It's dead straight. And I was going from the north part of that dead straight road to the south part of that dead straight road.
There's no bends in it. It just goes straight. And yet it was making me turn off and go through obscure villages and down narrow lanes and valleys.
I mean, if I didn't know where I was, I would have done this ridiculous journey, would have added 60 miles to it for no reason.
And one bright spark in California said, the software is now trying to write Elon in all the routes you take. That's what it was struggling to do. Because it was so bad.
They did another update. But I mean, that just shows that updates can go horribly, horribly wrong. They can go wrong.
I don't want to talk about them, but— The Tesla does update over the air and it can do it, and it usually does it at night.
So you get in the morning and it goes, oh, you have new software available. And you kind of look at it and it's all marvelous. And 99% of the time it's been amazing.
You just go, oh my God, that's better. Oh, they moved that, that works now. I can see where that is, all that stuff. But there was an update for their maps.
They use Google Maps in Teslas and it works very well, but they updated them.
And there were jokes going around because the joke was that you put a destination and it would work out your route. It just went ridiculous.
It wasn't slightly off or, well, I could go a quicker way. No, it went completely barking mad. It went all over the place. So there's a road near me called the Fosse Way. It's Roman.
It's been there a long time. Guess what? It's dead straight. And I was going from the north part of that dead straight road to the south part of that dead straight road.
There's no bends in it. It just goes straight. And yet it was making me turn off and go through obscure villages and down narrow lanes and valleys.
I mean, if I didn't know where I was, I would have done this ridiculous journey, would have added 60 miles to it for no reason.
And one bright spark in California said, the software is now trying to write Elon in all the routes you take. That's what it was struggling to do. Because it was so bad.
They did another update. But I mean, that just shows that updates can go horribly, horribly wrong. They can go wrong.
And in the case of these robot vacuum cleaners, Carole, to answer your question, the firmware updates happen automatically, rather like with Robert's Tesla.
Yeah.
They're pushed out, so there's no interaction from the user.
I think the Roomba owners should feel lucky. I mean, they could've turned into satanic Roombas instead of drunken ones.
You know, you could've woken up with one on your chest, trying to bash in your face or something.
You know, you could've woken up with one on your chest, trying to bash in your face or something.
Wow, that'd be bad.
That's scary.
Scary.
That would be bad. Well, now—
It's spewing, it's emptying its contents on your face.
Oh, that would— You could pay good money for that.
Stop! I'm not gonna say— I'm not rising to the bait.
My job is to push.
So there are Roombas now— Sorry. —who've been updated. And they think they found additional rooms. So they're getting confused with their maps, right?
So they're thinking they found a room in your backyard or across the street. So they are actually trying to get out the front door in some cases.
So it's possible they might trundle out there and go down that Roman road you've got near you, Robert. So there's some problems. Homes have been left uncleaned.
They're not making it back to their bases to recharge, and some are just barely working at all.
There's one guy up on Reddit, and I'll put up a link on the show notes, who's created a time-lapse video of his Roomba stumbling about, careering aimlessly around his floor for about 15 minutes before eventually just giving up, a little bit like a woodlouse.
He filmed it for 15 minutes? Yes, but he sped it up for the benefit of us.
So they're thinking they found a room in your backyard or across the street. So they are actually trying to get out the front door in some cases.
So it's possible they might trundle out there and go down that Roman road you've got near you, Robert. So there's some problems. Homes have been left uncleaned.
They're not making it back to their bases to recharge, and some are just barely working at all.
There's one guy up on Reddit, and I'll put up a link on the show notes, who's created a time-lapse video of his Roomba stumbling about, careering aimlessly around his floor for about 15 minutes before eventually just giving up, a little bit like a woodlouse.
He filmed it for 15 minutes? Yes, but he sped it up for the benefit of us.
Was he holding his phone the whole time?
So it's not that exhausting, Carole. I don't know what your fitness regime is like, but it's not that hard to do. So what can you do about this?
You're wondering, what can you do about this if you are suffering? Learn to vacuum like a normal person. Yeah.
Well, what you could do is you could lodge a support ticket with iRobot, the makers of the Roomba. Right.
And you can ask them to roll back the update and they will then tell you that they've done it and close the ticket.
You're wondering, what can you do about this if you are suffering? Learn to vacuum like a normal person. Yeah.
Well, what you could do is you could lodge a support ticket with iRobot, the makers of the Roomba. Right.
And you can ask them to roll back the update and they will then tell you that they've done it and close the ticket.
Why wouldn't they just roll it back for everybody? Hang on a moment.
Oh, they tell you that they've done it and close the ticket, but they haven't actually done it. So what people are finding is they ask them to do it. They say, yep, we've done that.
Thank you very much. And it never actually rolls back.
And so people ring back every couple of days and they kept being told, yeah, yeah, yeah, it'll happen in the next 24 to 48 hours.
But it's still happening week after week after week.
And people are getting a little— I don't know if you come across this phenomenon of people getting a bit grumpy on the internet.
Thank you very much. And it never actually rolls back.
And so people ring back every couple of days and they kept being told, yeah, yeah, yeah, it'll happen in the next 24 to 48 hours.
But it's still happening week after week after week.
And people are getting a little— I don't know if you come across this phenomenon of people getting a bit grumpy on the internet.
I've heard about it. I read about it in the Daily Mail. I've never witnessed it.
Can you imagine being a Roomba support person though? Like, you're not paid enough to deal with this shit. You're just not paid enough.
Why doesn't the CEO and the C-levels come down and take the phone calls?
Why doesn't the CEO and the C-levels come down and take the phone calls?
Well, you know what Roomba's support team are doing? What? They're making jokes about the situation. So one user went on Twitter and he tweeted the iRobot guys.
Says, I've just paid $800. They're about £1,500, right? These Roombas. Yeah. They're a lot of money.
And he says, look, it's done a half-assed job cleaning, and all it's doing is circles. And the company replied, we'd love a chance to turn your experience around.
And it's not very helpful. No, not the time for gags.
Says, I've just paid $800. They're about £1,500, right? These Roombas. Yeah. They're a lot of money.
And he says, look, it's done a half-assed job cleaning, and all it's doing is circles. And the company replied, we'd love a chance to turn your experience around.
And it's not very helpful. No, not the time for gags.
But not a huge drama. You know, it's not if your car sends you to Belarus.
Instead of bellend. Well, we'll come to that in Robert's section, maybe. Yeah, so some people are being rolled back. Some people have managed to roll back to fix the problem.
Unfortunately, they then are being automatically rolled forward again to the latest broken version. So the problems persist.
But I think this is— there are other problems here, right?
There's the problem of automatic updates which can be broken, haven't been tested properly, being pushed out without people's permission. And that can obviously be a nuisance.
They say they're going to fix this over the next several weeks, but there are other concerns with robot vacuum cleaners.
I wrote, I think it was late last year, about some researchers. They're like crackhead researchers. They're crazy, these guys, right?
And they found, even though robot vacuum cleaners don't have microphones on them, there's a way to eavesdrop on conversations remotely with them.
What they can do is they can use something called LiDAR. Have you heard of LiDAR?
Unfortunately, they then are being automatically rolled forward again to the latest broken version. So the problems persist.
But I think this is— there are other problems here, right?
There's the problem of automatic updates which can be broken, haven't been tested properly, being pushed out without people's permission. And that can obviously be a nuisance.
They say they're going to fix this over the next several weeks, but there are other concerns with robot vacuum cleaners.
I wrote, I think it was late last year, about some researchers. They're like crackhead researchers. They're crazy, these guys, right?
And they found, even though robot vacuum cleaners don't have microphones on them, there's a way to eavesdrop on conversations remotely with them.
What they can do is they can use something called LiDAR. Have you heard of LiDAR?
Yeah, Robert. Yeah, yes. Yeah, most modern cars have LiDAR on them, right? As a sort of guidance tool.
So it doesn't rely on it being daylight. So it can work at nighttime as well. And it's like a laser pulse. And this is what robot vacuum cleaners use as well.
What these researchers found was they could actually bounce the laser off something like a trash can or a paper basket, a metal paper basket.
Near someone who's having a conversation and pick up the vibrations and can tell what people are saying from that. All from a robot vacuum cleaner. Because you're an idiot!
What these researchers found was they could actually bounce the laser off something like a trash can or a paper basket, a metal paper basket.
Near someone who's having a conversation and pick up the vibrations and can tell what people are saying from that. All from a robot vacuum cleaner. Because you're an idiot!
Like, you do this show, it's 217 episodes!
Sometimes laziness overcomes.
But we've got a dustpan and brush that you can stand up and use. And my wife and I are obsessed.
We just constantly— because I used to have a dustpan and brush and I'd get down on the floor and I'd knead it. And this, you stand up and you go, and that's it.
We just constantly— because I used to have a dustpan and brush and I'd get down on the floor and I'd knead it. And this, you stand up and you go, and that's it.
Oh, that sounds— I'd quite like one of those.
It's so easy.
Here we go, Graham and his cleaning supplies to help deal with the Rona loneliness.
It's never had one update, it always functions in the way— I mean, you know, it's just— no, it's just for that kind of sweeping around a kitchen floor.
We've got stone floor in our kitchen. Yeah, and it's usually covered in carrots and bits of rice and God knows what else. And you know, and that's so easy to sweep it up with.
That's brilliant.
We've got stone floor in our kitchen. Yeah, and it's usually covered in carrots and bits of rice and God knows what else. And you know, and that's so easy to sweep it up with.
That's brilliant.
Yeah, who needs a Roomba?
But I did— yeah, I don't think our house just wouldn't— it wouldn't deal with the Roomba, no. I just think of them as American.
I've seen them in American apartments, you know, friends who've got exquisite polished floors that, you know, you just think, oh God, yeah, it's not gonna work in our house.
I've seen them in American apartments, you know, friends who've got exquisite polished floors that, you know, you just think, oh God, yeah, it's not gonna work in our house.
If you had one, it would just be spewing up carrots everywhere. Yeah, what's a carrot here?
When a house is too immaculate, you just wanna take a Sharpie to it. You just do.
There's something in me that just makes me just like— I think I'm slightly more mature than you.
I don't need to do that. Robert, why don't you tell us about your expenses in the world of cars?
Well, I mean, it is bizarre, isn't it, that all the modern cars have got so much software in them, so much stuff that can be updated.
I mean, absolutely right, a software update in a car now that we drive, it can be annoying because it sort of messes it up, or if it goes wrong, you know, that's annoying, but it's not kind of necessarily dangerous.
But once we are literally talking about autonomous cars, I've been in two Level 5 autonomous cars in experimental controlled circumstances.
I mean, absolutely right, a software update in a car now that we drive, it can be annoying because it sort of messes it up, or if it goes wrong, you know, that's annoying, but it's not kind of necessarily dangerous.
But once we are literally talking about autonomous cars, I've been in two Level 5 autonomous cars in experimental controlled circumstances.
So let me understand, because I'm not a car nerd.
What does Level 5 autonomy mean? Basically, in theory, I don't think it was Level 5, actually it was Level 4, they were saying it was. So it can drive anywhere.
And what are you doing? Are you lying out in the boot?
No, you're just sitting. No, it was actually a Nissan Leaf. It was a regular street-going car.
And there was someone sitting behind the steering wheel, but in the entire journey, they never touched a pedal, anything. The steering wheel completely controlled everything.
And that was on freeways, dual carriageways, roundabouts, pedestrian crossings with kids running out, scooters, busy streets with buses pulling out, quiet suburban streets, and it was faultless.
It drove faultlessly. But all the time it was doing that, and this was an experimental vehicle, the dashboard was covered in screens that were showing you what the car could see.
So it not only sees in front of you, it can see behind you in one specific circumstance which they'd set up to demonstrate it.
A vehicle was coming from our left as we were going along the street, and our car slowed down for no reason that we could see as human beings, but it knew that the other car was going— it was registering the other car, so they were talking to each other.
We couldn't see the other car, it's behind the building, but it knew it was there.
So our car slowed down because it estimated that that car wouldn't stop at the junction, it would carry on, and therefore it was a hazard.
So it slowed down, and in fact the other car did stop with a very nervous young man who had to drive it every time someone was doing this thing, just in case he got it wrong.
You could see him, he sort of waved at us rather sheepishly, because he had to kind of pelt it down this road and then hammer, put the brakes on really hard.
So all those things were extraordinary.
But I mean, the two aspects of it that I thought, this is going to be a while, when we got back to the base where it started, he opened the back of the car, and it had what I would consider a kind of small server farm going in the back of it.
And it really did make a lot of noise. And it was very hot in the car. So it had heated seats. Yes, it definitely had heated seats, particularly the back seats would be very hot.
A massive amount of servers and flashing lights and thick wires going, big bunches of wires all going in.
So the control system for this car to be able to do this and the amount of technology it had on it was energy sapping to the extreme.
So the particular Nissan Leaf we went in, I know the car well, would normally do in a city, say 150 miles in city driving like we were doing.
And with all this stuff at the back, it would do 40. And so it's using a staggering amount of electricity to run this thing.
So there's no question that will shrink and get smaller and lighter and cheaper and less energy consuming, as the technology develops.
But at the moment, it's such a monstrously complex task.
You know, when you see these multiple screens with thousands of images on them all the time, and they're all flashing red, green, green, green, and it will see a little kid.
It's amazing and incredible the amount of cameras on it, the amount of sensors, LiDAR all over it, all that stuff.
We saw a kid on a scooter with his mum, but a kind of 10-year-old, and he was wobbling a bit.
He wasn't on the road, he was on the opposite pavement, but the car went, oh, that looks, that doesn't look good. It set off alarms and we slowed down.
I mean, it's got to deal with so much stuff that as human beings, we don't even, if I'd been driving on there, I might've registered him, but I would've gone, oh, he's all right.
He's that side of the road. Someone else will knock him over. It was extraordinary amount of computing power is needed.
And there was someone sitting behind the steering wheel, but in the entire journey, they never touched a pedal, anything. The steering wheel completely controlled everything.
And that was on freeways, dual carriageways, roundabouts, pedestrian crossings with kids running out, scooters, busy streets with buses pulling out, quiet suburban streets, and it was faultless.
It drove faultlessly. But all the time it was doing that, and this was an experimental vehicle, the dashboard was covered in screens that were showing you what the car could see.
So it not only sees in front of you, it can see behind you in one specific circumstance which they'd set up to demonstrate it.
A vehicle was coming from our left as we were going along the street, and our car slowed down for no reason that we could see as human beings, but it knew that the other car was going— it was registering the other car, so they were talking to each other.
We couldn't see the other car, it's behind the building, but it knew it was there.
So our car slowed down because it estimated that that car wouldn't stop at the junction, it would carry on, and therefore it was a hazard.
So it slowed down, and in fact the other car did stop with a very nervous young man who had to drive it every time someone was doing this thing, just in case he got it wrong.
You could see him, he sort of waved at us rather sheepishly, because he had to kind of pelt it down this road and then hammer, put the brakes on really hard.
So all those things were extraordinary.
But I mean, the two aspects of it that I thought, this is going to be a while, when we got back to the base where it started, he opened the back of the car, and it had what I would consider a kind of small server farm going in the back of it.
And it really did make a lot of noise. And it was very hot in the car. So it had heated seats. Yes, it definitely had heated seats, particularly the back seats would be very hot.
A massive amount of servers and flashing lights and thick wires going, big bunches of wires all going in.
So the control system for this car to be able to do this and the amount of technology it had on it was energy sapping to the extreme.
So the particular Nissan Leaf we went in, I know the car well, would normally do in a city, say 150 miles in city driving like we were doing.
And with all this stuff at the back, it would do 40. And so it's using a staggering amount of electricity to run this thing.
So there's no question that will shrink and get smaller and lighter and cheaper and less energy consuming, as the technology develops.
But at the moment, it's such a monstrously complex task.
You know, when you see these multiple screens with thousands of images on them all the time, and they're all flashing red, green, green, green, and it will see a little kid.
It's amazing and incredible the amount of cameras on it, the amount of sensors, LiDAR all over it, all that stuff.
We saw a kid on a scooter with his mum, but a kind of 10-year-old, and he was wobbling a bit.
He wasn't on the road, he was on the opposite pavement, but the car went, oh, that looks, that doesn't look good. It set off alarms and we slowed down.
I mean, it's got to deal with so much stuff that as human beings, we don't even, if I'd been driving on there, I might've registered him, but I would've gone, oh, he's all right.
He's that side of the road. Someone else will knock him over. It was extraordinary amount of computing power is needed.
You know how in this country, the seagulls are getting worse and worse and more vicious, right?
So if they came after the car, the Nissan Leaf you were in, and just literally dive-bombed it, emptying their innards all over all the sensors, you'd be in trouble, no?
Or is there so many of them, it's very—
So if they came after the car, the Nissan Leaf you were in, and just literally dive-bombed it, emptying their innards all over all the sensors, you'd be in trouble, no?
Or is there so many of them, it's very—
There is a lot. It would have— you'd have a very large flock of seagulls, and the car would be completely white, I think.
But you know, I mean, there's— but the other aspect of it is because anyone could come up with a multiplicity of scenarios of utter damnation, horror, end of the world nightmare.
There's a child running across the road and there's an old lady walking the other way. She's old. Should you save the child?
Yeah, but the old lady is pushing a pram with a baby in it.
And then on the other side of the road, there's a man who's carrying a huge box of explosives that will wipe out the entire town if you hit him. You know, just calm down, love.
But you know, I mean, there's— but the other aspect of it is because anyone could come up with a multiplicity of scenarios of utter damnation, horror, end of the world nightmare.
There's a child running across the road and there's an old lady walking the other way. She's old. Should you save the child?
Yeah, but the old lady is pushing a pram with a baby in it.
And then on the other side of the road, there's a man who's carrying a huge box of explosives that will wipe out the entire town if you hit him. You know, just calm down, love.
So this is the trolley car problem.
The trolley car.
And if you mention the word trolley in front of people who work in autonomous vehicles, they generally try and bite you in the face and have to be arrested because it drives them mad.
I said seagulls, Robert! Seagulls is good. Seagulls is fine. I was trying to be funny. You didn't mention trolleys.
And if you mention the word trolley in front of people who work in autonomous vehicles, they generally try and bite you in the face and have to be arrested because it drives them mad.
I said seagulls, Robert! Seagulls is good. Seagulls is fine. I was trying to be funny. You didn't mention trolleys.
But it raises interesting questions, doesn't it? Because it's the software which will decide how the car should respond rather than the driver.
And so, you know, what's the legal implications of that?
And so, you know, what's the legal implications of that?
Yeah, hugely complex. And the insurance.
I mean, I think the most convincing scenario I've heard, which is actually a Volkswagen development that I've ever heard, this was a few years ago and they haven't done it and I haven't heard any more about it.
But they suggested that the notion of autonomous cars with people in them not driving is ridiculous. And it's going to be 100 years before we reach that point.
You've got to redesign a city in a sense to suit it. But the notion of an autonomous car with no one in it— this is the scenario that appealed to me.
So if there's no one in the car and it's driving down that road and there's a child jumping out, there is technology that can do this. The car literally destroys itself.
It rams it into the wall at the side. There's one option I've seen that someone's got. I think that's Volkswagen.
Someone's got a patent for explosive bolts that fire out of the bottom of the car and sink into the road. So it just stops dead. It will wreck the car. That's how bad liability is.
If you're in the car, you would die. So they cannot do it with anyone in the car. It can do from 30 to 0 in a thousandth of a second. It just is like it's hit a brick wall.
So it will always sacrifice itself to save a human life, which it can do. Then it's got more choices if there's no one in it.
And then when you— well, so the idea is you're at the supermarket, you come out, you press your phone or, you know, your temple, because you've got an insert in there from Bill Gates that came with your COVID vaccination.
It was free, you know, whatever it is, or your phone. And you call the phone and this car drives up to you empty, no one in it.
The steering wheel folds out, you get in it, you drive that. From that moment on, you're responsible. Your insurance covers you. They know it's not their car, it's your car.
You have to look after it. But when you get to where you're going, you get out of that car, get your shopping out the back, close the door, and it drives away.
You haven't got to park it, insure it, MOT it, do anything, refuel it, plug it in. It does all that. So you only have that car for that period of time.
You can see— I can see that happening much sooner.
I mean, I think the most convincing scenario I've heard, which is actually a Volkswagen development that I've ever heard, this was a few years ago and they haven't done it and I haven't heard any more about it.
But they suggested that the notion of autonomous cars with people in them not driving is ridiculous. And it's going to be 100 years before we reach that point.
You've got to redesign a city in a sense to suit it. But the notion of an autonomous car with no one in it— this is the scenario that appealed to me.
So if there's no one in the car and it's driving down that road and there's a child jumping out, there is technology that can do this. The car literally destroys itself.
It rams it into the wall at the side. There's one option I've seen that someone's got. I think that's Volkswagen.
Someone's got a patent for explosive bolts that fire out of the bottom of the car and sink into the road. So it just stops dead. It will wreck the car. That's how bad liability is.
If you're in the car, you would die. So they cannot do it with anyone in the car. It can do from 30 to 0 in a thousandth of a second. It just is like it's hit a brick wall.
So it will always sacrifice itself to save a human life, which it can do. Then it's got more choices if there's no one in it.
And then when you— well, so the idea is you're at the supermarket, you come out, you press your phone or, you know, your temple, because you've got an insert in there from Bill Gates that came with your COVID vaccination.
It was free, you know, whatever it is, or your phone. And you call the phone and this car drives up to you empty, no one in it.
The steering wheel folds out, you get in it, you drive that. From that moment on, you're responsible. Your insurance covers you. They know it's not their car, it's your car.
You have to look after it. But when you get to where you're going, you get out of that car, get your shopping out the back, close the door, and it drives away.
You haven't got to park it, insure it, MOT it, do anything, refuel it, plug it in. It does all that. So you only have that car for that period of time.
You can see— I can see that happening much sooner.
And that could really be world-changing. That could change cities because, for instance, you don't need car parks.
You don't need car parks. You don't need streets with cars parked on them. You have your streets back. Yeah, no, it would make a huge difference.
And it's always kind of when you understand that, and this is a presentation I saw probably 5 years ago, the notion of private car ownership, which we've all grown up with, it's normal.
If you look at it for more than 30 seconds, I suggest don't look at it. It's ridiculous. It's so ridiculous.
And it's always kind of when you understand that, and this is a presentation I saw probably 5 years ago, the notion of private car ownership, which we've all grown up with, it's normal.
If you look at it for more than 30 seconds, I suggest don't look at it. It's ridiculous. It's so ridiculous.
I agree with you.
It's just bonkers. You know, I've got a car just out behind me where I'm sitting in my studio now that's been there for 3 days. I haven't touched it, used it, been near it.
I mean, why? Why would I? Nothing to do with it, you know. And that's stupid. I'm paying for it. It's expensive. It's a leased car. I have to pay the insurance.
You know, bonkers, bonkers way of doing it. But it's really useful if I need to pop down the shops, get a bag of sugar or some organic tofu, which would be much more likely for me.
I mean, why? Why would I? Nothing to do with it, you know. And that's stupid. I'm paying for it. It's expensive. It's a leased car. I have to pay the insurance.
You know, bonkers, bonkers way of doing it. But it's really useful if I need to pop down the shops, get a bag of sugar or some organic tofu, which would be much more likely for me.
I think you're scared to get in it because you're worried about Elon Musk being bonkers.
He's gonna send me on the most absurd bridge.
Yes, he's just too crazy, apeshit bonkers. And you're thinking, you know, can we trust him?
Imagine getting into one of these super, super driverless cars, right? And you get in and then it gets the first bend, doesn't hit the child, right? Stops at the red light.
And I'd be like, all right, we're rock and rolling here. This guy knows how to drive. I'm gonna kick back and relax.
Like getting in a train, you just immediately would kind of trust it.
And I'd be like, all right, we're rock and rolling here. This guy knows how to drive. I'm gonna kick back and relax.
Like getting in a train, you just immediately would kind of trust it.
Yeah, I mean, a plane basically flies itself. The pilot's just sitting there looking cool, you know, wearing mirrored shades.
I mean, that's their main— but I mean, they do take off and that.
But I mean, I've been in the, in the old days pre-9/11 in the front of a 747 over the middle of North America with Craig Charles, in fact, from Red Dwarf, because the pilot was a Red Dwarf fan.
So he showed us around and there was no one flying it. There was no one sitting in the seats. It was flying itself.
You know, they let Craig sit in the front, which I thought was extremely dangerous.
I mean, that's their main— but I mean, they do take off and that.
But I mean, I've been in the, in the old days pre-9/11 in the front of a 747 over the middle of North America with Craig Charles, in fact, from Red Dwarf, because the pilot was a Red Dwarf fan.
So he showed us around and there was no one flying it. There was no one sitting in the seats. It was flying itself.
You know, they let Craig sit in the front, which I thought was extremely dangerous.
That does sound very dangerous. Well, he's quite good at breaking props, you know.
That wouldn't happen now, but it was great. We had a long chat with the captain. It was fantastic.
But yeah, I think that certainly the cybersecurity aspect of fully autonomous cars, I think, is a challenge that the human race has to deal with in quite a profound way.
Because that isn't I've lost the money in my bank, or, oh, my password's been stolen for Facebook. That is a car that can kill me. Yeah, yeah.
But yeah, I think that certainly the cybersecurity aspect of fully autonomous cars, I think, is a challenge that the human race has to deal with in quite a profound way.
Because that isn't I've lost the money in my bank, or, oh, my password's been stolen for Facebook. That is a car that can kill me. Yeah, yeah.
You fuck up a Roomba, who cares? You fuck up a car, oh no.
You fuck up a car, you're in real serious trouble. An autonomous bus is delivery. That's the way before cars, delivery vehicles. They're already in existence.
And I mean, they're— it's such a brilliant idea. So the last mile delivery, lightweight, super small thing.
It's got 5 boxes on it, opens a box when it gets to your house, you take your packet out, it zooms off somewhere else.
You know, very, very environmentally incredibly sensible way of dealing with things rather than big trucks that haven't got— I've got hardly anything in them.
You know, those sort of things are brilliant, but they're— and they're going to be with us way before we go in autonomous cars.
I mean, that with the stuff we've seen been in that area is very impressive.
And I mean, they're— it's such a brilliant idea. So the last mile delivery, lightweight, super small thing.
It's got 5 boxes on it, opens a box when it gets to your house, you take your packet out, it zooms off somewhere else.
You know, very, very environmentally incredibly sensible way of dealing with things rather than big trucks that haven't got— I've got hardly anything in them.
You know, those sort of things are brilliant, but they're— and they're going to be with us way before we go in autonomous cars.
I mean, that with the stuff we've seen been in that area is very impressive.
I think one thing that concerns me is that historically automobile companies haven't cared that much about security.
If you compare them to like financial industries who have had a long history of needing to guard something, but here we've got like the—
If you compare them to like financial industries who have had a long history of needing to guard something, but here we've got like the—
Not many cars have crashed though.
No, it's not so much about crashing. I'm thinking these are the ultimate IoT devices.
And what we are seeing are researchers who found ways to remotely hack into vehicles and sometimes take over steering, set off alarms, unlock them.
So the automobile companies, and I think they are, but they really need to invest strongly in cybersecurity to make sure that hackers don't cause mischief.
And what we are seeing are researchers who found ways to remotely hack into vehicles and sometimes take over steering, set off alarms, unlock them.
So the automobile companies, and I think they are, but they really need to invest strongly in cybersecurity to make sure that hackers don't cause mischief.
I know that my, for instance, I drive a Tesla Model 3, that's my regular car, and that sends everything that I do in that car to a thing somewhere, a cloud, which is a big warehouse with a load of computers going.
Anyone that has got access to that knows everywhere I've been. I made a very cheap joke at a very polite after-dinner talk with lots of elderly gentlemen and ladies about my Tesla.
And I explained about how the tracking works and all that. And I said that the people at Tesla know where all the best brothels are in Gloucestershire, which was my little joke.
But it didn't really go down very well with that audience.
Anyone that has got access to that knows everywhere I've been. I made a very cheap joke at a very polite after-dinner talk with lots of elderly gentlemen and ladies about my Tesla.
And I explained about how the tracking works and all that. And I said that the people at Tesla know where all the best brothels are in Gloucestershire, which was my little joke.
But it didn't really go down very well with that audience.
So, Carole, the whole world has been waiting. What have you got for us?
Social companion robots. I don't really know what the name of these are. Social robots or companion robots. These are like— Sex robots.
Well, I'm not really going into the sex robot area today. More those that help us communicate or ease loneliness or help us around the house like a Roomba. Right.
And since 2020 and the Rona nastiness, the demand for robot companions has absolutely skyrocketed. Seriously? For real, for real. In Japan particularly, right? Of course.
Huge demand for more human alternatives to assistance. So rather than having a Roomba, you'd want something with a face, I guess, right?
That would maybe go, "Yum, yum, this is delicious, all this dust," you know, or something.
Well, I'm not really going into the sex robot area today. More those that help us communicate or ease loneliness or help us around the house like a Roomba. Right.
And since 2020 and the Rona nastiness, the demand for robot companions has absolutely skyrocketed. Seriously? For real, for real. In Japan particularly, right? Of course.
Huge demand for more human alternatives to assistance. So rather than having a Roomba, you'd want something with a face, I guess, right?
That would maybe go, "Yum, yum, this is delicious, all this dust," you know, or something.
I have stuck googly eyes on my robot vacuum cleaner. Give it some personality.
Yeah, have a friend, right? So what I thought we would do is go through a few of, you know, the latest robot, got a little smattering of companion robots.
Both of your jobs is at the end of this, you have to choose a robot that's gonna be your companion because you guys in this fictitious world are very, very lonely.
Family and you need some love, some digital. Definitely, right? Definitely. So which one, which one of these 5 is going to meet your requirements?
We're going to start off with Charlie. Now Charlie's not on the market yet. Charlie's just coming, so you can check. There's a link.
Both of your jobs is at the end of this, you have to choose a robot that's gonna be your companion because you guys in this fictitious world are very, very lonely.
Family and you need some love, some digital. Definitely, right? Definitely. So which one, which one of these 5 is going to meet your requirements?
We're going to start off with Charlie. Now Charlie's not on the market yet. Charlie's just coming, so you can check. There's a link.
I'm gonna click now. Here we go. Oh my God, there's some— oh, here's Charlie. There's a little, little guy. Oh, he's cute. He's just a little guy.
Cute little red nose. He's got a little bow.
This Japanese lady looks very lonely. Oh, he's wiggling his feet and singing a song to her.
So this is Charlie and Charlie's been built by Yamaha and its quote is more chatty than a pet, but less work than a lover. And so Charlie sings his responses to you.
So you might say to Charlie, Charlie, tell me something interesting. Right?
And Charlie might go, "Well, well, balloons burst when you spray lemon juice." And then you're supposed to be thrilled.
So you might say to Charlie, Charlie, tell me something interesting. Right?
And Charlie might go, "Well, well, balloons burst when you spray lemon juice." And then you're supposed to be thrilled.
Baboons first? What's that? Baboons?
No, balloons.
Balloons. Oh, burst. Balloons burst. Burst.
Balloons burst when you spray lemon juice.
Well, Charlie looks really irritating, I have to say. But I don't know what else you've got lined up.
He does look quite irritating.
Yeah, yeah, okay, so that's number one. Okay, now do you remember Aibo?
Yes, I do remember Aibo.
Yeah. Oh, the dog. Yes. Yeah. Yes.
Now Aibo kind of died and they discontinued it. It was actually launched in 1999 and then it discontinued after that.
And more than a decade, I think about 18 years since then, it's back. Wow, it is back. So check out Aibo. I'd like to know what you guys think.
Is this what you need at home to make you feel—
And more than a decade, I think about 18 years since then, it's back. Wow, it is back. So check out Aibo. I'd like to know what you guys think.
Is this what you need at home to make you feel—
So Aibo used to look like K9 And now— Oh, okay. It's like a— Yeah, it's like a little puppy.
Yep. It walks too.
Oh, that is quite cute, actually. Really? No, actually, it's a bit frightening.
When its eyes are theoretically, in inverted commas, shut, it does look like it could easily just explode and kill you.
When its eyes are theoretically, in inverted commas, shut, it does look like it could easily just explode and kill you.
It walks like it really needs to do a big poo. Oh, God.
It does look like it's desperate to go out for a poo.
It looks stuck.
Doesn't it look like it needs a poo? That's exactly what I thought too.
Looks like it's been very well trained and it won't do it in the house.
Oh my God, I remember when my child had a full nappy back in the day. It's that sort of stance of like, what have you got down there? Okay, oh, that's helping do exercises.
That's very good.
Watching her play guitar. Okay.
All right, so yeah, so there's Aibo. So it's a kind of robotic dog. I don't think that's very cuddly.
No, no, it doesn't. No, it looks like hard plastic.
Okay, next one. Next up is Lova. Okay, so this robot is the size of a small toddler with big round eyes, huge eyes, yeah, and penguin-like wings that flutter up and down every time.
And it has apparently 50 sensors, probably more than the Tesla has.
And it has apparently 50 sensors, probably more than the Tesla has.
It probably does, yeah, yeah.
And internal heating because there's so many sensors.
It probably comes naturally No fan. Yes, the big eyes are very cartoon-like, aren't they? Sort of. Yeah, and it's got a sort of bobble hat.
Oh my God, but its eyes can turn into cameras. It looks like a camera all of a sudden.
What is that thing coming out of its head?
Oh my Lord, you press it, you press its nose and it records. I see, you punch— if you press its nose, you know, you've got it.
And then you've got to give it a cuddle because you've just punched it in the nose, but then it records things. That is quite freaky.
And then you've got to give it a cuddle because you've just punched it in the nose, but then it records things. That is quite freaky.
Why is she stroking it?
Yeah, yeah, because so people buy clothes for these things, these Lovebots.
It's been around for a year or two, and they buy clothes for them and they put them in their car and they bring them everywhere they go and they hug them and love them.
And apparently it's going to be ideally a companion for— I would not give this to my grandmother and say, here, I'll see you in a month.
It's been around for a year or two, and they buy clothes for them and they put them in their car and they bring them everywhere they go and they hug them and love them.
And apparently it's going to be ideally a companion for— I would not give this to my grandmother and say, here, I'll see you in a month.
No, you'll be fine with Lovebot. No.
Is this popular in Japan, this thing? Yes. Do they let Japanese people out of the country? These sort of things.
So the next one, okay, therapeutic robot, okay? Comforting communication that warms your heart the way animals do. Check it out.
Oh my goodness, well, that looks like a little creature.
Oh my Lord, oh my Lord, I can see a little tail coming out of a— oh my God, oh Lord, that is frightening.
It doesn't have a head, it's just got an ass. It's basically a walking— or an appendage.
Oh my God, it can come It's a penis.
Oh my Lord.
It's a wagging tail. It's a wagging tail on a pillow.
It's a very hairy— She can't walk down the street with that wagging like that.
That looks wrong. That looks like she's done something really seriously wrong.
It looks a bit like a Tribble from—
It does. It's very Tribble-like, isn't it?
They call it Kubotherapy. Wrap yourself with fuzzy love.
So this thing doesn't have eyes. It's like a cat without a head, isn't it?
It's like a circle. With a tail, a cattail attached to it. And the cattail actually mechanically moves and fluffs and—
Why would you need a robot with a mechanically moving tail?
Because it gives you warmth. And warms your heart the way an animal does. My cat did not need to have a face, it turns out.
But it is— there's something about it. It was the sequence when it wakes up in the morning.
And there's only one word I can use to describe the way the tail rises up, and that is it becomes— it's erect. It becomes erect.
It's the right— it's the correct term to describe it. It's not like I'm not trying to be smutty. It gets an erection.
And there's only one word I can use to describe the way the tail rises up, and that is it becomes— it's erect. It becomes erect.
It's the right— it's the correct term to describe it. It's not like I'm not trying to be smutty. It gets an erection.
Morning glory.
First thing in the morning. I remember those days as well, Robert. Long past us now.
A long, long time ago. I can remember I read about it now, but yeah, but that is extraordinary. That is the weirdest one somehow. That one takes me out even more.
I've got one last one. Is there one more? Oh my God.
I've got one last one. Is there one more? Oh my God.
I've got one last one. Now this one I actually left Japan just to see what our European counterparts are doing. Oh yes, yes. So please click on the link. I have no words.
Okay, okay. Okay, let's see. It's called the Flat Cat.
Flat Cat, okay.
Your next robot is a pet, okay. Okay, and it appears to be— Oh my Lord, it's coming.
Whoa, whoa, whoa, that's terrifying. That is quite frightening.
It's sort of arching up. It looks like a piece of— It looks like a cat that's been run over. God, that is just wrong. It's been under a steamroller.
It can't be real, can it? I can't be real.
It's just bizarre. That is the weirdest—
It's like a hairy slug. It's like a slug.
It's literally like an envelope inside. Or a peach worm.
Fuzzy.
It does not make me feel relaxed in there.
Can you imagine that thing running around your house? Like kind of crawling like a Chucky doll? Where are you?
Oh my Lord, it moves in it.
Yeah, it just kind of twists in, but it swells.
It sort of looks like it could be— if it was a creature, you think this is its death throes, it's in agony.
Yeah, so give it a hug.
Not reassuring what people are doing. If anyone remembers that Doctor Who story from the '70s, the giant maggots, it reminds me.
Anyway, there you go. Those are great.
That's what Japan's up to. So, yeah, this is—
Yeah, this is what's North Korea up to? Yeah, no one knows. No one knows.
Maybe keep it quite quiet.
Those are funny. Those are bizarre. They are really odd, aren't they?
I mean, it is that— and I look, it's just hard to quite understand what that— well, you know, that you can have some sort of relationship with a little machine like that, you know, which is the theory that we're told.
I'm slightly suspicious of the kind of journalism, you know. In Japan, they have relationships with machines. And you go, really, do they?
Are they just telling us that because, you know, that gets— they can sell more stuff? I don't know. It just seems your lockdown was serious.
I mean, it is that— and I look, it's just hard to quite understand what that— well, you know, that you can have some sort of relationship with a little machine like that, you know, which is the theory that we're told.
I'm slightly suspicious of the kind of journalism, you know. In Japan, they have relationships with machines. And you go, really, do they?
Are they just telling us that because, you know, that gets— they can sell more stuff? I don't know. It just seems your lockdown was serious.
You couldn't even go outside at all, and you live on your own, and you're there for whatever, months and months on that.
I actually think I'd probably start talking to my coffee mug.
I actually think I'd probably start talking to my coffee mug.
So, oh yeah, no, I've spoken to our dustpan and brush with a long handle. I mean, I've had quite long conversations with it.
This is like having a relationship with a piece of carpet. I can't— wouldn't you prefer something with a face?
Anyway, Graham, your birthday's coming up, so—
Oh, all right. Okay. Right?
I'm not gonna get you the $3,000 one, okay? That's how much that one is. So I'll get a cheaper— one of them might be yours. You're welcome.
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Make your home a 1Password household.
Imagine security at your fingertips on any device.
That's what 1Password offers—seamless syncing across all your computers and mobile devices so you can store and access unlimited passwords from anywhere at any time.
Only you have the keys to decrypt your data and sensitive info. 1Password doesn't know it, doesn't share it, doesn't sell it.
With cool features like Watchtower, which alerts you to any weak passwords, to Travel Mode, which allows you to hide certain vaults from your devices while on business or personal trips.
Protect your whole family and get 50% off when you sign up for a 1Password family account. Check out 1password.com/switch50. That's 1password.com/switch50.
Make your home a 1Password household.
And welcome back, and you join us at our favorite part of the show, the part of the show that we like to call Pick of the Week.
Pick of the Week.
Oh, do I say Pick of the Week? Pick of the Week. Beautiful.
Pick of the Week is the part of the show where everyone chooses something they like.
Could be a funny story, a book that they've read, a TV show, a movie, a record, a podcast, a website, or an app. Whatever they wish. Doesn't have to be security-related necessarily.
Better not be. Well, my Pick of the Week this week is not security-related. It is a TV show. I recently discovered that somehow or other I have a freebie Apple TV subscription.
I think maybe they gave it to everyone under lockdown and I just never noticed, but I stumbled in there and I discovered some TV shows and I thought, oh, this looks interesting.
And I found a TV show called For All Mankind made by Ronald D. Moore. You may remember he was the guy behind the revived Battlestar Galactica TV series.
He also worked on Star Trek in the 1990s. And the premise of the show is that Russia has beaten America to the moon.
And because Russia gets there about two weeks before Neil Armstrong, it makes the US compete in space rather than what actually happened, as we remember, is they got really bored and just stopped.
Well, like Olympics?
Could be a funny story, a book that they've read, a TV show, a movie, a record, a podcast, a website, or an app. Whatever they wish. Doesn't have to be security-related necessarily.
Better not be. Well, my Pick of the Week this week is not security-related. It is a TV show. I recently discovered that somehow or other I have a freebie Apple TV subscription.
I think maybe they gave it to everyone under lockdown and I just never noticed, but I stumbled in there and I discovered some TV shows and I thought, oh, this looks interesting.
And I found a TV show called For All Mankind made by Ronald D. Moore. You may remember he was the guy behind the revived Battlestar Galactica TV series.
He also worked on Star Trek in the 1990s. And the premise of the show is that Russia has beaten America to the moon.
And because Russia gets there about two weeks before Neil Armstrong, it makes the US compete in space rather than what actually happened, as we remember, is they got really bored and just stopped.
Well, like Olympics?
Space Olympics? That kind of competing?
No, no, no, no, no, not competing. No, no, not something like that. But the space race began.
So we had the two superpowers who were thinking this is the future, and so they put lots of resources into space rather than Vietnam or furry hats or whatever the Russians were doing.
So it asks the question, what if the space race had continued?
And it's a drama series set in 1969 and then the '70s, and it's mostly set in reality, and there are real people portrayed.
And it's not like Star Wars or something like just fake news. But it's a plausible alternative history. So, women astronauts setting up a moon base.
So we had the two superpowers who were thinking this is the future, and so they put lots of resources into space rather than Vietnam or furry hats or whatever the Russians were doing.
So it asks the question, what if the space race had continued?
And it's a drama series set in 1969 and then the '70s, and it's mostly set in reality, and there are real people portrayed.
And it's not like Star Wars or something like just fake news. But it's a plausible alternative history. So, women astronauts setting up a moon base.
Yes. Oh yeah, that's crazy. Yeah, but they—
But no woman has walked on the moon, right? But under this scenario, people did begin to go to the moon. More people went there, and they sent all kinds of different people.
Ted Kennedy becomes president. John Lennon doesn't get assassinated. That's great. It's quite interesting.
The second series has just begun, but they're releasing them episode by episode, and that's set in the 1980s, and things are hotting up. Shoulder pads.
I think it's quite fun, and I quite enjoy it, and I've had a good old binge.
Ted Kennedy becomes president. John Lennon doesn't get assassinated. That's great. It's quite interesting.
The second series has just begun, but they're releasing them episode by episode, and that's set in the 1980s, and things are hotting up. Shoulder pads.
I think it's quite fun, and I quite enjoy it, and I've had a good old binge.
Oh, I'm going to watch it. I don't know. Yeah. Yeah, I don't know.
Yeah, anything you hear that's available that no one's seen, they're all in. Yeah. Yeah, it's like, done. Okay, it's on my list. Okay.
And that is why For All Mankind on Apple TV is my Pick of the Week. Excellent. Robert, what's your Pick of the Week?
Well, I've changed my mind because I was going to do the car that I've been driving, but if people are interested in that, they can see— they can watch it on Fully Charged.
The Volkswagen ID.4, a very impressive vehicle.
But I'm actually in the middle of reading, and I found reading during lockdown quite hard, and I don't know why, because I'm normally quite a busy reader, but it's been somehow— it's been harder.
But this book has got me, and this is a book written by someone who I would have nothing in common with.
I wouldn't— there's like no area of my body would be in agreement with anything she's ever thought or said. I can't bear her, except it's fascinating.
It's called A Diary of an MP's Wife. I think it's a bit of a bestseller.
It's by a woman called Sasha Swire, who I've never heard of, and her husband is a high-flying cabinet minister and an MP, and I've never heard of him.
The Volkswagen ID.4, a very impressive vehicle.
But I'm actually in the middle of reading, and I found reading during lockdown quite hard, and I don't know why, because I'm normally quite a busy reader, but it's been somehow— it's been harder.
But this book has got me, and this is a book written by someone who I would have nothing in common with.
I wouldn't— there's like no area of my body would be in agreement with anything she's ever thought or said. I can't bear her, except it's fascinating.
It's called A Diary of an MP's Wife. I think it's a bit of a bestseller.
It's by a woman called Sasha Swire, who I've never heard of, and her husband is a high-flying cabinet minister and an MP, and I've never heard of him.
And where did you pick this up?
Well, my wife got it, so it was one of the books she'd read, and it kind of was on a pile next to my bed that I— and she said you should read it.
And I've just not been responding to anything like that, and I suddenly started it.
And because it's a diary, and it's a fairly contemporary one, it basically covers about the last 10 years, it is a fascinating insight into basically how unpleasant politicians are, how fragile Britain— including her husband, including her husband, including her, including every politician you've heard of.
The ones that she really loathes are Gove, Michael Gove. Understandable, yes.
But Boris Johnson, she— there's a thing she wrote that I think was published at the time in something like The Spectator.
If he ever becomes Prime Minister, the country is doomed, she wrote. This is someone who's known him for years. How many children has Boris Johnson got? Do you know about this?
And I've just not been responding to anything like that, and I suddenly started it.
And because it's a diary, and it's a fairly contemporary one, it basically covers about the last 10 years, it is a fascinating insight into basically how unpleasant politicians are, how fragile Britain— including her husband, including her husband, including her, including every politician you've heard of.
The ones that she really loathes are Gove, Michael Gove. Understandable, yes.
But Boris Johnson, she— there's a thing she wrote that I think was published at the time in something like The Spectator.
If he ever becomes Prime Minister, the country is doomed, she wrote. This is someone who's known him for years. How many children has Boris Johnson got? Do you know about this?
It's like 4 or 5 or something.
Oh, the fact that on Wikipedia it now 5 or 6, and they don't know. No one knows. And there's one— I'm not even going to spread the gossip, but we know someone, unfortunately.
We actually know someone who knows him, and there's more than 6. That's all. So that's— ah, it's just the most odd thing. And he's our Prime Minister.
Yeah, he's meant to be a trustworthy guy. Anyway, so it's a fascinating read because it is the kind of stirred septic tank of the Tory party.
And she calls— she refers to Dave as David Cameron. Yeah, went around to Dave's in Notting Hill. You just go, oh, you vile, scummy people, I hate all of you.
But I'm still reading it, you know. So it is—
We actually know someone who knows him, and there's more than 6. That's all. So that's— ah, it's just the most odd thing. And he's our Prime Minister.
Yeah, he's meant to be a trustworthy guy. Anyway, so it's a fascinating read because it is the kind of stirred septic tank of the Tory party.
And she calls— she refers to Dave as David Cameron. Yeah, went around to Dave's in Notting Hill. You just go, oh, you vile, scummy people, I hate all of you.
But I'm still reading it, you know. So it is—
Are you full of expletives as your wife's trying to read her book beside you and you're—
She's going, just stop, I read it, I've read it, I know how bad they are. God, these people are so awful. But she's quite honest.
I suppose you've got to give her the benefit that she is quite honest and doesn't sort of— it doesn't pull her punches. So she's very rude about it.
And then because it covers Brexit and the terrible trauma of what Brexit is now for all of us, but within the Tory Party for the last 30 years— I mean, I always— I think if you're not in that world and you're not an obsessive member of the Tory Party, you forget, you know, that 20 years ago I was just going around doing stuff, whereas the Tory party was screaming and hating each other because of the European Union.
I'm going, oh, get over it, love, it's not that interesting. But they were very interested. And so Cummings— oh, she doesn't Cummings.
So every now and then you get to a page, you go, oh, she hates Cummings, that's good.
And then she's really nice about someone else who I think is absolute scum and says what an amazing person he is. Oh God, it's reading Grazia for politics.
Yes, yeah, yes, it's very, very bitchy, very gossipy. And, and you can't— and the annoying thing is I know half the— there's quite a few of them, you know.
So the search and such as other minister or something, never heard of her or him, don't know who they are.
But then, poisonous little cow, I think, is the description of Priti Patel, you know. So she doesn't— and she's— her husband is still an MP today, and this book's out now.
Of course, all— they're all reading it, they all love it. Amazing. Yeah.
I suppose you've got to give her the benefit that she is quite honest and doesn't sort of— it doesn't pull her punches. So she's very rude about it.
And then because it covers Brexit and the terrible trauma of what Brexit is now for all of us, but within the Tory Party for the last 30 years— I mean, I always— I think if you're not in that world and you're not an obsessive member of the Tory Party, you forget, you know, that 20 years ago I was just going around doing stuff, whereas the Tory party was screaming and hating each other because of the European Union.
I'm going, oh, get over it, love, it's not that interesting. But they were very interested. And so Cummings— oh, she doesn't Cummings.
So every now and then you get to a page, you go, oh, she hates Cummings, that's good.
And then she's really nice about someone else who I think is absolute scum and says what an amazing person he is. Oh God, it's reading Grazia for politics.
Yes, yeah, yes, it's very, very bitchy, very gossipy. And, and you can't— and the annoying thing is I know half the— there's quite a few of them, you know.
So the search and such as other minister or something, never heard of her or him, don't know who they are.
But then, poisonous little cow, I think, is the description of Priti Patel, you know. So she doesn't— and she's— her husband is still an MP today, and this book's out now.
Of course, all— they're all reading it, they all love it. Amazing. Yeah.
Anyway, people will love that.
That's a great pick of the week. It does sound rather good.
Yeah. Diary of an MP's Wife Inside and Outside Power by Sasha Swire. S-W-I-R-E. Her husband is, I think, Hugo Swire, which of course is just a classic Tory name. Such a name, yeah.
How do you do? I'm Hugo Swire, I'm your MP. Oh fuck, are you really? What a fucking disaster. I better go. Yeah, sorry. Anyway, there you go, that's my pick. Brilliant.
How do you do? I'm Hugo Swire, I'm your MP. Oh fuck, are you really? What a fucking disaster. I better go. Yeah, sorry. Anyway, there you go, that's my pick. Brilliant.
Carole, what's your pick of the week?
Oh, mine's very deliberate. Delicious. Mine's very delicious. Get your pens at the ready, okay? It's a movie on Netflix called I Care a Lot. Yeah, right. Have you seen this, any of you?
Yes, I have. Yeah, no, I loved it.
Yeah, I loved it too. I loved it too. Okay, so Graham, Graham, Graham, so the plot: Marla Grayson, okay, she's played by Rosamund Pike.
She's a professional— oh yes— court-appointed guardian for elderly wards, you know, so maybe someone's losing their marbles and there's no one to look after them, so she'll get minded, but actually she is basically running this horrific racket and kind of basically managing the money in a way that I might say completely unethical, although barely legal.
She seems to fly them through the legalese fairly simply and kind of, you know, has judges.
She's a professional— oh yes— court-appointed guardian for elderly wards, you know, so maybe someone's losing their marbles and there's no one to look after them, so she'll get minded, but actually she is basically running this horrific racket and kind of basically managing the money in a way that I might say completely unethical, although barely legal.
She seems to fly them through the legalese fairly simply and kind of, you know, has judges.
So maybe her, her company is given a lot of money to look after these elderly people. She just manages their money.
So let's say soon, Graham, right, you're an older man, and you may want to appoint me, and then I would be in charge of all your cash, all your assets, all your time, all your— and then I would be able to make decisions on your behalf.
And I'd be like, no, he definitely needs to wear diapers. He definitely needs to wear diapers all the time, 24/7, something like that.
Anyway, it is a fascinating movie because they're so bitchy. They are so bitchy, the girls. And it's kind of rare to see— what did you think? What did you think, Robert?
What did you think of it?
And I'd be like, no, he definitely needs to wear diapers. He definitely needs to wear diapers all the time, 24/7, something like that.
Anyway, it is a fascinating movie because they're so bitchy. They are so bitchy, the girls. And it's kind of rare to see— what did you think? What did you think, Robert?
What did you think of it?
I thought it extraordinary. And I thought it was scary too. They're scary and frightening.
And you think, God— and I know that it was based— I don't know, I mean, the story isn't based on true story, but the scenario is there are people like that who control old people's lives, who take over, take all their money, sell their house.
Sell all their belongings. You know, their relatives who are trying to protect them haven't got a hope in hell of doing anything about it because they know how to work the courts.
You know, really frightening scenario. And yet done charm, and she's got to be beautifully dressed, and she's— yeah, she's so cute. Yeah, she's gorgeously dressed. Oh my God.
And her eyes just— they just ooze care. Yeah, I'm here to look after you, you know, all that stuff. She's great. No, she's very, very good.
And it is a sort of— it's a silly plot in a way, that kind of— there's bits of it that you go, yeah, fair enough. Yeah, but you sort of forgive it.
No, I thought it was really good, really enjoyed it.
And you think, God— and I know that it was based— I don't know, I mean, the story isn't based on true story, but the scenario is there are people like that who control old people's lives, who take over, take all their money, sell their house.
Sell all their belongings. You know, their relatives who are trying to protect them haven't got a hope in hell of doing anything about it because they know how to work the courts.
You know, really frightening scenario. And yet done charm, and she's got to be beautifully dressed, and she's— yeah, she's so cute. Yeah, she's gorgeously dressed. Oh my God.
And her eyes just— they just ooze care. Yeah, I'm here to look after you, you know, all that stuff. She's great. No, she's very, very good.
And it is a sort of— it's a silly plot in a way, that kind of— there's bits of it that you go, yeah, fair enough. Yeah, but you sort of forgive it.
No, I thought it was really good, really enjoyed it.
Peter Dinklage was pretty gorgeous in it too, I thought, especially at the beginning. She was playing the son of the— Oh yes, yes.
Oh God, he's extraordinary. No, he's extraordinary.
Anyway, I think they could have maintained that comedic heartbeat they showed at the beginning a bit through the film. But otherwise, seriously, it's kind of fresh. It's fun.
It's fast-paced, beautiful clothing, kind of—
It's fast-paced, beautiful clothing, kind of—
She just won a Golden Globe, hasn't she? Rosamund Pike, I think, for it. She just got given a gong of some sort. No, it got mentioned, definitely.
Oh, do we know if The Queen's Gambit got— It did, yes. Hey, congratulations, because of course Garry Kasparov is listening.
It's both for the actress and for the show. Yeah, they did do well.
Yeah. Can I do a one sentence, slightly long one sentence? I'll do it really quickly. Rosamund Pike anecdote. It's one of my favorites. Okay, so we're with the same agents.
When I say that, it's a very big agency, and the bit that she's involved with is the posh bit, and I'm with the sort of lower, much lower rank.
Anyway, I was delivering a script to my agents, and they have a sort of reception desk, and I know the two women behind the reception.
They go, 'Hello, Robert!' And there's this gorgeous baby sitting on the front of their reception counter, and he looks up at me and puts his little arms out and goes, 'Da da da da da da,' and he's dribbling.
And I'm a sucker for babies, so I got, oh, hello. And then he reaches his arms up and I kind of look to my right and I say, is it okay, can I give him a cuddle?
And the mum says, yeah, yeah, of course you can. So I kind of pick him up and he's putting his hands in my mouth and we get— this is very pre-COVID, probably 5 or 6 years ago.
I'm doing a little, giving him a little pat on his back and he's all gorgeous, all that stuff. So then I put him down.
As I'm putting him down, I then turn and his mother is Rosamund Pike, and I nearly dropped her child at that point.
And so, and I said to my— I said something like, oh, fucking hell, it was you, sorry. Such a bad, awkward, difficult moment.
She was delightful and just smiled, and you know, she is utterly stunning in real life.
And it was one of those things where I just don't understand how I got that far holding her baby.
But she was talking to the other receptionist, she wasn't kind of paying much attention. Anyway, so yeah, there's my Rosamund Pike story.
When I say that, it's a very big agency, and the bit that she's involved with is the posh bit, and I'm with the sort of lower, much lower rank.
Anyway, I was delivering a script to my agents, and they have a sort of reception desk, and I know the two women behind the reception.
They go, 'Hello, Robert!' And there's this gorgeous baby sitting on the front of their reception counter, and he looks up at me and puts his little arms out and goes, 'Da da da da da da,' and he's dribbling.
And I'm a sucker for babies, so I got, oh, hello. And then he reaches his arms up and I kind of look to my right and I say, is it okay, can I give him a cuddle?
And the mum says, yeah, yeah, of course you can. So I kind of pick him up and he's putting his hands in my mouth and we get— this is very pre-COVID, probably 5 or 6 years ago.
I'm doing a little, giving him a little pat on his back and he's all gorgeous, all that stuff. So then I put him down.
As I'm putting him down, I then turn and his mother is Rosamund Pike, and I nearly dropped her child at that point.
And so, and I said to my— I said something like, oh, fucking hell, it was you, sorry. Such a bad, awkward, difficult moment.
She was delightful and just smiled, and you know, she is utterly stunning in real life.
And it was one of those things where I just don't understand how I got that far holding her baby.
But she was talking to the other receptionist, she wasn't kind of paying much attention. Anyway, so yeah, there's my Rosamund Pike story.
Yeah, that's one degree of separation. Yeah. Wow. Anyway, I recommend it. I Care a Lot. Yeah, I Care a Lot on Netflix.
Watch it. Well, that just about wraps it up for this week. Robert, thank you so much for coming on the show.
I'm sure lots of our listeners, if they're not already following you online or watching Fully Charged, they might want to do so. What's the best way for folks to do that?
I'm sure lots of our listeners, if they're not already following you online or watching Fully Charged, they might want to do so. What's the best way for folks to do that?
I suppose, well, I mean, the Fully Charged show on YouTube is fairly easy to find. Our web page is clever.
I didn't even know you could do this, but our web address is fullycharged.show. Just that, nothing else.
I didn't even know you could do this, but our web address is fullycharged.show. Just that, nothing else.
Brilliant.
So yeah, through that you'll find all the nonsense that I'm up to. Yeah.
And you can find us on Twitter at Smashing Security, no G. Twitter allows us to have a G. And we're also on Reddit, so just look for the Smashing Security subreddit up there.
And don't forget to ensure you never miss another episode, subscribe in your favorite podcast app, such as Apple Podcasts, Pocket Casts, and Google Podcasts.
And don't forget to ensure you never miss another episode, subscribe in your favorite podcast app, such as Apple Podcasts, Pocket Casts, and Google Podcasts.
And big fat thank you to this episode sponsor, 1Password, and to our wonderful Patreon community. Thanks to all of them, this show is free for all.
And for episode show notes, sponsorship information, guest list, and the entire back catalog of more than 217 episodes, check out Smashing Security. Smashingsecurity.com.
And for episode show notes, sponsorship information, guest list, and the entire back catalog of more than 217 episodes, check out Smashing Security. Smashingsecurity.com.
Until next time, cheerio, bye-bye, bye-bye, bye-bye.
That was good.
Very sexy. That was very sexy. That was a Rosamund Pike bye-bye.
Do you do a lot of voiceover work?
I sort of not that— I haven't done that much recently. I have done in the past, yes, and audiobooks and things like that, loads of them, but not 0898 numbers. 0898.
That's why, that's why you're not reading, because you're not getting paid, you see.
Yes, it does help.
Hosts:
Graham Cluley:
@grahamcluley.com
@
/ grahamcluley
Carole Theriault:
Guest:
Robert Llewellyn – @bobbyllew
Show notes:
- 'Drunk' robot vacuums spark complaints from owners — BBC News.
- Roomba S9+ weird behaviour on version 3.10.8 — Reddit.
- Time lapse video of i7+ attempting to return to clean base after 3.12.8 update — Reddit.
- Robot vacuum cleaners can eavesdrop on your conversations, researchers reveal — Bitdefender BOX blog.
- The Hidden Cyber Risks of Electric Vehicles — Upstream.
- Mindfulness, laughter and robot dogs may relieve lockdown loneliness – study — The Guardian.
- Charlie — YouTube.
- Aibo — YouTube.
- Lovot — YouTube.
- Petit Qoobo — YouTube.
- Flatcat — YouTube.
- For All Mankind trailer — YouTube.
- For All Mankind — Apple TV.
- "Diary of an MP's Wife: Inside and Outside Power" by Sasha Swire. — Amazon.
- "I Care A Lot" trailer — YouTube.
- I Care A Lot — IMDB.
- Smashing Security merchandise (t-shirts, mugs, stickers and stuff)
- Support us on Patreon!
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