Deloitte suffers an embarrassing hack, CCleaner spreads malware, and Twitter explains why it isn’t planning to ban Donald Trump from Twitter anytime soon.
All this and more is discussed in the latest edition of the “Smashing Security” podcast by cybersecurity veterans Graham Cluley and Carole Theriault, joined this week by special guest Phil Wood of Cisco.
Show notes:
Please check out the show notes for this episode of the podcast on the Smashing Security webpage.
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This transcript was generated automatically, probably contains mistakes, and has not been manually verified.
Hello, Carole Theriault.
Hey, Graham. Welcome back to the UK.
That's right. I'm back, aren't I?
Yes. Yeah.
Isn't it nicer here?
And it's a bit wetter, to be honest.
I know. I know.
It was in New York, but maybe we should explain to everyone.
So we recorded the podcast that people are about to hear on Tuesday because I was over in New York and it's now Wednesday evening.
So we recorded the podcast that people are about to hear on Tuesday because I was over in New York and it's now Wednesday evening.
Actually, we recorded it on Tuesday because it gives us a bit more time to edit. Shh, shh, shh, keep this a secret. There's no editing.
There's never an edit. But now it's Wednesday evening.
And there's more stuff to say about Deloitte. Yes, yes, yes. Okay, tell them, tell them, tell them.
So we are going to talk about the Deloitte hack, but since we recorded, there have been a cavalcade of other disasters which have come out.
It looks like a whole bunch of Deloitte's corporate VPN passwords, usernames, operational details—you can read all about this on The Register—were posted on a public-facing GitHub repository, which isn't good news.
And one of their employees was also, it appears, posting VPN passwords and login credentials to his public Google+ page.
It looks like a whole bunch of Deloitte's corporate VPN passwords, usernames, operational details—you can read all about this on The Register—were posted on a public-facing GitHub repository, which isn't good news.
And one of their employees was also, it appears, posting VPN passwords and login credentials to his public Google+ page.
No way.
And there have been a whole host of other discoveries as well.
You know what I love about this? We do talk about Deloitte saying there's just a few cases, right? And we were like, a few for Deloitte?
Yeah. Well, it looks like there is quite a security problem at Deloitte and some people— Well, that screws us all, let's be honest. Well, it does. Yes.
Because obviously we do business with companies, all of us, and those companies may well be sharing information with Deloitte.
The joke that's going around on Twitter, although it's not really funny, is that maybe Deloitte needs an auditor.
They need someone to audit their security themselves, but people can hear what the situation was as of Tuesday in the following podcast. And we hope that you all enjoy it.
And it's good to be back in the UK. Yay!
Because obviously we do business with companies, all of us, and those companies may well be sharing information with Deloitte.
The joke that's going around on Twitter, although it's not really funny, is that maybe Deloitte needs an auditor.
They need someone to audit their security themselves, but people can hear what the situation was as of Tuesday in the following podcast. And we hope that you all enjoy it.
And it's good to be back in the UK. Yay!
A big thank you to our sponsors, Recorded Future.
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Sign up to their Cyber Daily newsletter and get the latest insights from Recorded Future at recordedfuture.com/intel.
Recorded Future arms threat analysts, security operators, and incident responders to rapidly connect the dots and reveal unknown threats.
Their patented technology automatically collects and analyzes threat intelligence from technical, open, and dark web sources. Why?
To provide invaluable context for faster human analysis and real-time integration with your existing security systems.
Sign up to their Cyber Daily newsletter and get the latest insights from Recorded Future at recordedfuture.com/intel.
Smashing Security, Episode 45: Deloitte fail, CCleaner, and dotards on Twitter with Carole Theriault and Graham Cluley.
Hello, hello, and welcome to another episode, Episode 45 of Smashing Security. My name is Graham Cluley, and I'm joined as always by my good chum and co-host, Carole Theriault.
Hello, hello, and welcome to another episode, Episode 45 of Smashing Security. My name is Graham Cluley, and I'm joined as always by my good chum and co-host, Carole Theriault.
Hello, Graham. How are you? I'm good. I'm good. I'm just back from Croatia. I was visiting our ex-host Vanja over in Croatia.
Yeah. And I'm in New York at the moment, which is why I might sound a little bit strange.
I mean, what do you think, the air is different?
No, no, no. I mean, in this odd hotel room where one of the walls is a cheese grater. I tweeted a picture of it earlier on. I spent so long trying to turn the lights on.
I can't tell you. It was so— it's so high-tech and trendy, this hotel. But I've had a good time here. I've been speaking at the FraudForce conference hosted by IOvation.
That's been good fun. And then I'm going to catch the plane straight after this podcast back. But it's not just you and me, Carole. We are joined by our special guest.
I can't tell you. It was so— it's so high-tech and trendy, this hotel. But I've had a good time here. I've been speaking at the FraudForce conference hosted by IOvation.
That's been good fun. And then I'm going to catch the plane straight after this podcast back. But it's not just you and me, Carole. We are joined by our special guest.
We are. Say hello to Phil Wood from Cisco. Hello, Graham. How are you?
Phil, for those who don't know you, what on earth are you doing here? Why should we care about you?
I don't know if you should care that much, but so yeah, so my name is Phil Wood. I am a security engineer at Cisco and I know stuff about security, or so I'm told.
So I'm here to talk to you about malware and other such nasties that you can find.
So I'm here to talk to you about malware and other such nasties that you can find.
But more than that, we have— Carole and I have actually worked alongside Phil, so he's got the dirt on us.
I do. So much dirt.
Phil actually, in the old, old, old days, was actually— we shared a flat. We were flatmates. Oh yes, you did.
I forgot. Yeah, it's a long time ago.
The golden years, as I would call them. It was great. But enough about that.
Guys, you know the score, okay?
Each week we're going to look back on what's been happening over the last 7 days from the world of computer security, things which have tickled our nostrils and that we want to share our opinion about.
And I'm going to go first because bad news, chaps.
I'm afraid Deloitte, one of the so-called Big Four accountancy firms and one of the largest private businesses in the United States, has been hacked. Yeah.
Confidential emails, plans of its corporate clients, all kinds of guff have been exposed and put at risk by the hackers.
And the breach was revealed by The Guardian, who say that it went unnoticed for months.
Each week we're going to look back on what's been happening over the last 7 days from the world of computer security, things which have tickled our nostrils and that we want to share our opinion about.
And I'm going to go first because bad news, chaps.
I'm afraid Deloitte, one of the so-called Big Four accountancy firms and one of the largest private businesses in the United States, has been hacked. Yeah.
Confidential emails, plans of its corporate clients, all kinds of guff have been exposed and put at risk by the hackers.
And the breach was revealed by The Guardian, who say that it went unnoticed for months.
Yeah, yeah, I read that.
We don't know exactly how long it's going on.
Brian Krebs, the Krebsmeister himself, has been looking into this and good old Krebster, security blogger extraordinaire, has been suggesting that the breach may date back well into 2016.
He notes that there was a company-wide mandatory password reset back then. An anonymous source has told him that Deloitte has brushed the scale of the attack under the carpet.
Several gigabytes of data, according to his source, have been exfiltrated to a UK server.
But what happened was this: It looks like Deloitte, who of course work in a number of industries, right? They do auditing and tax consultancy and cybersecurity. Yes. Yes.
They give cybersecurity advice to multinational banks and pharmaceuticals, government agencies, and all the rest of that.
It looks like that one of their administrator accounts got broken into. A hacker managed to gain access to, well, unrestricted access to just about everything.
And that cloud-based account didn't have any two-factor authentication or two-step verification in place.
So maybe it was just a simple phish and before you know it, out came tumbling passwords, usernames, IP addresses, sensitive documents, you name it, which have all been entrusted to Deloitte by their clients.
So it's not just Deloitte's information. Yeah. This is information held by their blue-chip clients as well.
Brian Krebs, the Krebsmeister himself, has been looking into this and good old Krebster, security blogger extraordinaire, has been suggesting that the breach may date back well into 2016.
He notes that there was a company-wide mandatory password reset back then. An anonymous source has told him that Deloitte has brushed the scale of the attack under the carpet.
Several gigabytes of data, according to his source, have been exfiltrated to a UK server.
But what happened was this: It looks like Deloitte, who of course work in a number of industries, right? They do auditing and tax consultancy and cybersecurity. Yes. Yes.
They give cybersecurity advice to multinational banks and pharmaceuticals, government agencies, and all the rest of that.
It looks like that one of their administrator accounts got broken into. A hacker managed to gain access to, well, unrestricted access to just about everything.
And that cloud-based account didn't have any two-factor authentication or two-step verification in place.
So maybe it was just a simple phish and before you know it, out came tumbling passwords, usernames, IP addresses, sensitive documents, you name it, which have all been entrusted to Deloitte by their clients.
So it's not just Deloitte's information. Yeah. This is information held by their blue-chip clients as well.
It's like a big castle full of gold coins having one key to unlock everything. Well, yeah.
You know, you want multiple checks, don't you, for these sort of things?
So it is rather insane that sort of protection wasn't in place and that this information wasn't properly defended.
And now, according to the Guardian, there's been an internal inquiry inside the company which they've codenamed Windham. Now, which made me instantly think of Triffids, actually.
You remember John Wyndham's book, Day of the Triffids? That isn't a dolphin, that's a Triffid attacking. It's my Triffid impression.
But no less apocalyptic, is it really, if something like this begins to breach out could be very damaging to the company, although it is downplaying the scale of the breach. Yeah.
Some reports are saying 5 million emails exposed maybe, but Deloitte are saying, oh, very few.
So it is rather insane that sort of protection wasn't in place and that this information wasn't properly defended.
And now, according to the Guardian, there's been an internal inquiry inside the company which they've codenamed Windham. Now, which made me instantly think of Triffids, actually.
You remember John Wyndham's book, Day of the Triffids? That isn't a dolphin, that's a Triffid attacking. It's my Triffid impression.
But no less apocalyptic, is it really, if something like this begins to breach out could be very damaging to the company, although it is downplaying the scale of the breach. Yeah.
Some reports are saying 5 million emails exposed maybe, but Deloitte are saying, oh, very few.
That's what I saw. Very few clients, which is kind of— Very few. Yeah, it's interesting language because few for Deloitte is a heck of a lot for the rest of us.
Well, yeah, we don't know what that means as a percentage or as a raw number.
Their investigation, they say, has demonstrated that no disruption has occurred to client businesses or to Deloitte's ability to continue to serve clients or to consumers.
So it's saying it's taking security terribly, terribly seriously.
But let's face it, you know, if something like this happens, the damage which could be done is quite considerable because you sort of have this chain reaction.
It's not just damage to Deloitte, but all of those FTSE and big companies out there, which could be subsequently breached as a result.
And it wouldn't necessarily be possible to tell that those other subsequent hacks might be connected to this one.
Their investigation, they say, has demonstrated that no disruption has occurred to client businesses or to Deloitte's ability to continue to serve clients or to consumers.
So it's saying it's taking security terribly, terribly seriously.
But let's face it, you know, if something like this happens, the damage which could be done is quite considerable because you sort of have this chain reaction.
It's not just damage to Deloitte, but all of those FTSE and big companies out there, which could be subsequently breached as a result.
And it wouldn't necessarily be possible to tell that those other subsequent hacks might be connected to this one.
I know. I think it's so— just because the Equifax just happened, it feels a bit small potatoes to me. Isn't that awful?
You're suffering from fatigue because of Equifax.
Yeah, I am.
I think that's a real thing, you know. I think data breach fatigue definitely happens.
I think people get so bombarded by this kind of thing that you just think, oh, another day, another big data breach.
But you know, maybe we should be feeling a little bit, you know, cross about these sort of things because why, why on earth wasn't there some two-factor or multifactor authentication in place on those admin accounts?
Those god-style attacks. Why didn't they have a whitelist of IP ranges which could access the account and anyone trying to access from anywhere else? Why wasn't that being blocked?
Why are there no defenses in place to spot anomalous behavior as millions of emails are being accessed as well?
I think companies can't afford to be complacent about this kind of thing.
I think people get so bombarded by this kind of thing that you just think, oh, another day, another big data breach.
But you know, maybe we should be feeling a little bit, you know, cross about these sort of things because why, why on earth wasn't there some two-factor or multifactor authentication in place on those admin accounts?
Those god-style attacks. Why didn't they have a whitelist of IP ranges which could access the account and anyone trying to access from anywhere else? Why wasn't that being blocked?
Why are there no defenses in place to spot anomalous behavior as millions of emails are being accessed as well?
I think companies can't afford to be complacent about this kind of thing.
Well, especially if you're giving people security advice. You know, so has there been a big apology? Has there been a big apology so far?
Not really a big apology. They say that they've contacted some of the firms who may have had their information exposed.
But you know, it feels like they're trying to say small potatoes.
But as I mentioned, go and read Brian Krebs because he appears to have a source who is sharing more information and suggesting that this was on a much bigger scale than Deloitte is currently saying.
Now, whether that's true or not, who knows?
But history has shown that sometimes companies start off by saying something isn't that big a deal and then later have to admit actually it was worse than we imagined.
I mean, the threat here isn't just of data loss, but also phishing, business email compromise. So be careful.
But you know, it feels like they're trying to say small potatoes.
But as I mentioned, go and read Brian Krebs because he appears to have a source who is sharing more information and suggesting that this was on a much bigger scale than Deloitte is currently saying.
Now, whether that's true or not, who knows?
But history has shown that sometimes companies start off by saying something isn't that big a deal and then later have to admit actually it was worse than we imagined.
I mean, the threat here isn't just of data loss, but also phishing, business email compromise. So be careful.
I think that's a big, that's a great point you're making.
So bad news for Deloitte, bad news for their security team as well, who are obviously, you know, their services are being offered to other companies as well.
And bad news for those many, many big companies who have Deloitte as a supplier, who they've trusted their information.
I think this is a message I'm hearing time and time again, is that businesses and individuals are entrusting their private information with others who aren't doing a good enough job of defending it, and something's got to be done.
And bad news for those many, many big companies who have Deloitte as a supplier, who they've trusted their information.
I think this is a message I'm hearing time and time again, is that businesses and individuals are entrusting their private information with others who aren't doing a good enough job of defending it, and something's got to be done.
Here's another way to look at it, right? So yes, according to the Guardian article, no two-factor authentication on a highly privileged account.
I mean, I have two-factor authentication on all sorts of things that really don't matter. So that does seem quite a slip-up, but here's the thing I would think about on this.
Let's say they did have a lot more defense in place. Are they going to have all their defenses in place? Is there going to be no holes? No, not really.
It's really not about keeping a breach out, it's how you respond to one.
And I think that's really perhaps where Deloitte will prove their worth, or not, you know, their ability to deal with this situation.
Because you've got to assume that you can always be breached. You hope that it won't happen and you do a lot to try and prevent it, but that's got to be part of the assumption.
So how they deal with this breach, that's, I think, going to be— that's the pudding they're proving, if that's not extending the metaphor too far.
I mean, I have two-factor authentication on all sorts of things that really don't matter. So that does seem quite a slip-up, but here's the thing I would think about on this.
Let's say they did have a lot more defense in place. Are they going to have all their defenses in place? Is there going to be no holes? No, not really.
It's really not about keeping a breach out, it's how you respond to one.
And I think that's really perhaps where Deloitte will prove their worth, or not, you know, their ability to deal with this situation.
Because you've got to assume that you can always be breached. You hope that it won't happen and you do a lot to try and prevent it, but that's got to be part of the assumption.
So how they deal with this breach, that's, I think, going to be— that's the pudding they're proving, if that's not extending the metaphor too far.
OK, so I accept that.
I think you're right that we shouldn't focus too much on how, although there's obviously a lesson there for other companies who may not have the simplest defenses in place.
And response is so important when you deal with these sort of incidents.
We saw the complete shambles, the omni-shambles that was occurring at Equifax, for instance, and has continued ever since then.
But I also think, oh yeah, okay, so yes, a company will always get breached if someone's determined enough.
But what you want to do, as most companies, is you want to be that little bit better protected than the other guys, because most of the hacks which take place aren't focused on your particular company.
It'll be a hacker who'll think, oh, this is too difficult. They've got these defenses in place, therefore I'm gonna find a weaker target instead. And there they failed.
I think you're right that we shouldn't focus too much on how, although there's obviously a lesson there for other companies who may not have the simplest defenses in place.
And response is so important when you deal with these sort of incidents.
We saw the complete shambles, the omni-shambles that was occurring at Equifax, for instance, and has continued ever since then.
But I also think, oh yeah, okay, so yes, a company will always get breached if someone's determined enough.
But what you want to do, as most companies, is you want to be that little bit better protected than the other guys, because most of the hacks which take place aren't focused on your particular company.
It'll be a hacker who'll think, oh, this is too difficult. They've got these defenses in place, therefore I'm gonna find a weaker target instead. And there they failed.
Yeah, and presumably you've gotta benchmark the security or you've limited access to the information depending on how valuable that information is.
And I think their customers would say, this information is pretty effing valuable to us. And what were you doing, Deloitte?
And I think their customers would say, this information is pretty effing valuable to us. And what were you doing, Deloitte?
Yeah, well, they're giving cybersecurity advice. Well, why?
And you know, that's kind of the irony.
You successfully defend against all the opportunists, but I think, you know, it is about what they do in response to this and how are they protecting the data?
How are they ensuring that even if people do get hold of it, it's of no use to them?
So encryption and that kind of thing, which wouldn't necessarily protect you against an administrator, but it seems it was mostly email.
I think perhaps people think about email as being, well, it's just email, but attachments.
I think that would be— that's a big part of this, I think, is really how they respond to the breach.
And I think that's where companies are failing because, you know, at the end of the day, if you get breached and nothing bad happens because you've responded quickly or you responded effectively, then okay, then fair enough, you got breached, but, you know, no harm, no foul.
You successfully defend against all the opportunists, but I think, you know, it is about what they do in response to this and how are they protecting the data?
How are they ensuring that even if people do get hold of it, it's of no use to them?
So encryption and that kind of thing, which wouldn't necessarily protect you against an administrator, but it seems it was mostly email.
I think perhaps people think about email as being, well, it's just email, but attachments.
I think that would be— that's a big part of this, I think, is really how they respond to the breach.
And I think that's where companies are failing because, you know, at the end of the day, if you get breached and nothing bad happens because you've responded quickly or you responded effectively, then okay, then fair enough, you got breached, but, you know, no harm, no foul.
Well, I guess we're going to wait and see, but this will all come out, right?
I mean, I think they've been promising a statement for a while now, but I don't know if one has been particularly forthcoming yet.
I would imagine there's probably still quite a lot of headless chickens going on. I don't know.
I would imagine there's probably still quite a lot of headless chickens going on. I don't know.
Oh, I would think so. Although it looks they've been investigating this for some months. Months.
So you would think that they had a better coordinated response by now, but we will have to see. So I think Deloitte, watch out because maybe you're going to go down the to-loit.
So you would think that they had a better coordinated response by now, but we will have to see. So I think Deloitte, watch out because maybe you're going to go down the to-loit.
Get it? Good one, baby. Good one. Liked it. Yeah, I still got it, Carole.
Boom. Still got it. Yeah. Kaboom. Drop the mic. Okay. Phil, what have you got for us this week?
So I've got CCleaner. Oh yes. So another, another, you know, incidence of malware, obviously it's my interest in life.
Well, let's not get into your personal interests just yet, Phil, because I think Carole and I are only too— well, I think we have some ideas.
Yeah, but as I say, you've got the dirt, I've got the dirt, we've all got dirt. Let's leave it there.
So CCleaner isn't malware, is it? It's meant to be an anti-malware tool in a way.
What's kind of really ironic about it is it is in part kind of a system hygiene tool.
So it's supposed to help you out, but unwittingly, users of CCleaner have been royally infecting themselves through its use.
It was actually discovered by my colleagues at Cisco, as well as actually, it has to be said, Morphisec. Essentially, good guys found it. And that's good.
So it's supposed to help you out, but unwittingly, users of CCleaner have been royally infecting themselves through its use.
It was actually discovered by my colleagues at Cisco, as well as actually, it has to be said, Morphisec. Essentially, good guys found it. And that's good.
So CCleaner is this tool which many people use to clean up their machines or maybe sort out cookies and registry entries and things like that on their Windows computer, which—
So it's a kind of semi-geeky tool, right?
Yes, but a lot of people use it.
Now, what's unusual in this particular case is that someone malicious got into the supply chain, as it were, and managed to digitally sign an update to CCleaner which had malware in it, right?
And then of course that rolled out around the world.
Now, what's unusual in this particular case is that someone malicious got into the supply chain, as it were, and managed to digitally sign an update to CCleaner which had malware in it, right?
And then of course that rolled out around the world.
So it was actually the installer of CCleaner. And one of the nice things about that from the attacker's point of view, all that stuff is signed.
So any kind of security products that you're using that kind of evaluate signatures or certificates, that's going to pass that test because it all looks legit.
It's all signed by a trusted source. And that's really going to help your malware spread.
So any kind of security products that you're using that kind of evaluate signatures or certificates, that's going to pass that test because it all looks legit.
It's all signed by a trusted source. And that's really going to help your malware spread.
And what was this malicious component doing?
So what it was doing was that was essentially taking confidential information from your computer and sending it off to a list of various different websites.
Now, all of those websites, as we speak today, those are under the control of Talos, which is Cisco's threat intelligence organization.
Kind of the back end of it has been taken down now.
But I mean, we have seen some evolution in the malware in that it seems to be also targeting high-profile companies, Cisco being one of them, as well as some others.
Now, all of those websites, as we speak today, those are under the control of Talos, which is Cisco's threat intelligence organization.
Kind of the back end of it has been taken down now.
But I mean, we have seen some evolution in the malware in that it seems to be also targeting high-profile companies, Cisco being one of them, as well as some others.
So someone malicious was using this to target your company amongst others.
We do come under quite heavy attack, as you would imagine. You know, we're quite a big IT company, obviously, so that's not something that's particularly unusual.
I think, you know, it's interesting that we're actually seeing this referenced in the source code of malware, but yeah, that is pretty common.
I think, you know, it's interesting that we're actually seeing this referenced in the source code of malware, but yeah, that is pretty common.
But it was really widely spread.
It was really widely spread because it's a very well-used tool, right? But I think, you know, this is another example of people will always infect computers.
Now, what the CCleaner case reminded me of was the NotPetya campaign, the ransomware which broke out in Ukraine, which was shipped via a poisoned update.
Again, digitally signed, I think it was, of an accountancy program. Yeah, Medoc. Which was, you know, yeah, that's it, Medoc.
And it does feel like this is a growing problem, the supply chain attacks.
So software which you've already approved, which you're allowing to update inside your environment, which may be antivirus software as well, is saying, oh, this piece of software, this is digitally signed by XYZ company, therefore it's less suspicious.
Actually can be a method by which the attackers can crawl onto your network.
Again, digitally signed, I think it was, of an accountancy program. Yeah, Medoc. Which was, you know, yeah, that's it, Medoc.
And it does feel like this is a growing problem, the supply chain attacks.
So software which you've already approved, which you're allowing to update inside your environment, which may be antivirus software as well, is saying, oh, this piece of software, this is digitally signed by XYZ company, therefore it's less suspicious.
Actually can be a method by which the attackers can crawl onto your network.
Yeah, and your automated security will just not catch it because it's already been told, yeah, that's cool, we like these dudes.
Yeah, I think, you know, the days of individual files representing the malware, you know, Love Letter, Cornucopia, all those things, you know, those are long since finished.
You know, attacks are campaigns. You know, we're seeing strings of compromised servers being used to proxy command and control traffic.
And obviously you've got to compromise a lot of organizations to actually, before you even start your real attack. You know, it's big business, isn't it?
And obviously now people are able to make a lot of money out of it.
They're able to invest a lot of money back in the technology and that's, you know, that's a big part of the problem.
You know, attacks are campaigns. You know, we're seeing strings of compromised servers being used to proxy command and control traffic.
And obviously you've got to compromise a lot of organizations to actually, before you even start your real attack. You know, it's big business, isn't it?
And obviously now people are able to make a lot of money out of it.
They're able to invest a lot of money back in the technology and that's, you know, that's a big part of the problem.
Thanks for cheering us up. Yes, I was about to say it's been a really cheery show so far. It's been fantastic. We've chosen our stories really well, I think. Fantastic. Lovely.
Carole, I imagine you've got something similarly uplifting to entertain us with for your section.
Carole, I imagine you've got something similarly uplifting to entertain us with for your section.
It's so uplifting. It's so uplifting. So I knew that you guys were doing two cyber stories, so I thought I'd go a little off-piste a bit.
And I want to talk about Twitter finding itself in a spot of bother this week.
So the problem reared up in response to yet another inflammatory tweet from Donald Trump, once again aimed at North Korea. Sorry, Donald who?
So on the 22nd of September, the person you've never heard of, Graham, tweeted 'Kim Jong-un of North Korea, who is obviously a madman who doesn't mind starving or killing his people, will be tested like never before!' And then, and just two days ago, Donald Trump said, 'I just heard Foreign Minister of North Korea speak at the UN.
If he echoes the thoughts of the little rocket man'— that's a reference to Kim Jong-un— 'they won't be around for much longer.' So this is all getting very heated.
North Korea's foreign minister has taken these tweets as a declaration of war. What? Yes.
And I want to talk about Twitter finding itself in a spot of bother this week.
So the problem reared up in response to yet another inflammatory tweet from Donald Trump, once again aimed at North Korea. Sorry, Donald who?
So on the 22nd of September, the person you've never heard of, Graham, tweeted 'Kim Jong-un of North Korea, who is obviously a madman who doesn't mind starving or killing his people, will be tested like never before!' And then, and just two days ago, Donald Trump said, 'I just heard Foreign Minister of North Korea speak at the UN.
If he echoes the thoughts of the little rocket man'— that's a reference to Kim Jong-un— 'they won't be around for much longer.' So this is all getting very heated.
North Korea's foreign minister has taken these tweets as a declaration of war. What? Yes.
So how is this cheering us up now? A couple of malware stories.
Oh, I'm just getting to the good bit. I'm just getting to the good bit. Just getting to the good bit.
The foreign minister says America's declared war.
Yes.
Quote, since the United States declared war on our country, we will have every right to make countermeasures, including the right to shoot down United States strategic bombers even when they are not yet inside the airspace border of our own country.
So, right. So this is all scary stuff. And it's all done with this weird air of WWE SmackDown, right?
It's— Phil, you were a big WWF fan in the old— that's what it used to be called, right? WWF?
Quote, since the United States declared war on our country, we will have every right to make countermeasures, including the right to shoot down United States strategic bombers even when they are not yet inside the airspace border of our own country.
So, right. So this is all scary stuff. And it's all done with this weird air of WWE SmackDown, right?
It's— Phil, you were a big WWF fan in the old— that's what it used to be called, right? WWF?
It used to be called WWF, yeah.
But it does have this kind of SmackDown feel, oh yeah, well, boom, you know, right before they get into the ring.
If they both had WWE names, wrestling names, what would they be?
Well, they do. They both named each other. One is named now the Little Rocket Man. The other one, isn't it Dotard?
Or was it Dotard versus the Little Rocket Man. I'd pay for the pay-per-view on that one. I think it'd be Frankie Goes to Hollywood video. Is that too old a reference?
That's going back some.
That's going back some.
It's just so scary. It's kind of— it's almost absurd. Anyway, so despite, you know, threats of imminent war aside, okay, there is another problem.
This is the problem I kind of want to talk about today. So these tweets from Donald Trump are arguably breaking the rules of conduct for Twitter.
And when I say arguably, I'm saying, yeah, they definitely break the rules of conduct for Twitter. So I had to go, I went and had a little look.
And in the abusive behavior section of the Twitter rules, there is sections on violent threats, direct or indirect harassment, and hateful conduct are all listed as big no-nos.
So a bunch of folks who most likely find Trump's use of his personal account for presidential communications/threats inappropriate started reporting the tweet as a breach of the Twitter rules.
Reporting Donald Trump's tweets. Reporting Donald Trump's tweets that we've read out earlier in my segment, right?
Saying basically these need to be removed because they're inciting violence. And yes.
So many people complained that Twitter actually issued a 6-part tweet to explain why Donald's message was not going to be going anywhere anytime soon. So let me read this to you.
So it starts, some of you have been asking why we haven't taken down the tweet mentioned here. Link in show notes.
We hold all accounts to the same rules and consider a number of factors when assessing whether tweets violate our rules.
Among the considerations is newsworthiness and whether a tweet is of public interest. This has long been internal policy. Okay, this is the bit I love.
This has long been internal policy and will soon update our public-facing rules to reflect it. We need to do better on this and will.
Twitter is committed to transparency and keeping blah, blah, blah, blah. So this is a really aggravating and loopy response to my mind, because this is how I read it.
And I'd love to know your opinions. Okay. So I'm seeing this as, hey, Twitter users, you're all the same. So your account is as important to us as Trump's account. Hmm. Okay.
But if you get a lot of traffic, it probably means that you're newsworthy. And then I guess we can treat you a Twitter VIP.
And you can break whatever rules and we're going to look the other way, no questions asked. That's what I'm reading.
This is the problem I kind of want to talk about today. So these tweets from Donald Trump are arguably breaking the rules of conduct for Twitter.
And when I say arguably, I'm saying, yeah, they definitely break the rules of conduct for Twitter. So I had to go, I went and had a little look.
And in the abusive behavior section of the Twitter rules, there is sections on violent threats, direct or indirect harassment, and hateful conduct are all listed as big no-nos.
So a bunch of folks who most likely find Trump's use of his personal account for presidential communications/threats inappropriate started reporting the tweet as a breach of the Twitter rules.
Reporting Donald Trump's tweets. Reporting Donald Trump's tweets that we've read out earlier in my segment, right?
Saying basically these need to be removed because they're inciting violence. And yes.
So many people complained that Twitter actually issued a 6-part tweet to explain why Donald's message was not going to be going anywhere anytime soon. So let me read this to you.
So it starts, some of you have been asking why we haven't taken down the tweet mentioned here. Link in show notes.
We hold all accounts to the same rules and consider a number of factors when assessing whether tweets violate our rules.
Among the considerations is newsworthiness and whether a tweet is of public interest. This has long been internal policy. Okay, this is the bit I love.
This has long been internal policy and will soon update our public-facing rules to reflect it. We need to do better on this and will.
Twitter is committed to transparency and keeping blah, blah, blah, blah. So this is a really aggravating and loopy response to my mind, because this is how I read it.
And I'd love to know your opinions. Okay. So I'm seeing this as, hey, Twitter users, you're all the same. So your account is as important to us as Trump's account. Hmm. Okay.
But if you get a lot of traffic, it probably means that you're newsworthy. And then I guess we can treat you a Twitter VIP.
And you can break whatever rules and we're going to look the other way, no questions asked. That's what I'm reading.
Because Donald Trump is really the most fantastic advert for Twitter, or at least he gets their name out there, right? The brand awareness of Twitter must have increased.
Yeah, maybe not as a great advert for it, but he's increased its profile because I'm here in the States at the moment, I turn on the news and there's a constant ticker up there basically saying, and he's just tweeted— this morning, for instance, it said he's just tweeted 2 minutes ago about, you know, the TV ratings for the NFL going down, right?
Because that's really what matters. But, you know, there's constant commentary about it.
Yeah, maybe not as a great advert for it, but he's increased its profile because I'm here in the States at the moment, I turn on the news and there's a constant ticker up there basically saying, and he's just tweeted— this morning, for instance, it said he's just tweeted 2 minutes ago about, you know, the TV ratings for the NFL going down, right?
Because that's really what matters. But, you know, there's constant commentary about it.
Yeah, this whole idea of him using his personal account for presidential, you know, tweets is interesting.
Where does the man separate from the responsibilities of the President of the United States?
Where does the man separate from the responsibilities of the President of the United States?
In their statement, they've said we treat everybody the same, right? Yeah. And there are rules which mention that you're not meant to be violent or abusive and things that.
However, there is this extra private consideration of newsworthiness, which basically means if you have 10 million followers on Twitter, then you can just do what the heck you.
However, there is this extra private consideration of newsworthiness, which basically means if you have 10 million followers on Twitter, then you can just do what the heck you.
Well, interestingly, they say among the considerations, so they haven't actually listed all the considerations they take into account.
So I imagine that can just grow over time as is appropriate to their requirements. I don't know, I just feel they should do better.
So I imagine that can just grow over time as is appropriate to their requirements. I don't know, I just feel they should do better.
What do you think? They should ban him from Twitter?
Yeah, I kind of do. Just for me to kind of go, yay, well done, Twitter.
He'll just go on Snapchat. Can you imagine the selfies? It would be appalling.
I bet that's one of the considerations, right? There's plenty of platforms like this.
What occurred to me about how he tweets presidential business from his own account, I wonder if he's not too good at swapping between accounts.
He's just not really— his thumbs aren't really— so we're going to get a bit feeble for him. He's old, he's a dotard. What is this word, dotard?
So it's something that— the Korean— I think it was actually Kim Jong-un himself addressed Donald Trump directly at a kind of what passes for a press conference in North Korea and actually called him a dotard, which I think is an old fool, basically.
What occurred to me about how he tweets presidential business from his own account, I wonder if he's not too good at swapping between accounts.
He's just not really— his thumbs aren't really— so we're going to get a bit feeble for him. He's old, he's a dotard. What is this word, dotard?
So it's something that— the Korean— I think it was actually Kim Jong-un himself addressed Donald Trump directly at a kind of what passes for a press conference in North Korea and actually called him a dotard, which I think is an old fool, basically.
Yeah, it comes from the word dotage, right? Okay, same.
I was once called a motard by a virus writer, and I don't know what that was.
Oh, I thought you were going to say me. Oh yeah, you've—
I think you've certainly adopted that on a regular basis.
In the old days. Isn't it time for our sponsors?
Yes, let's find out who's sponsoring the show this week.
This episode of Smashing Security is brought to you in part by Recorded Future.
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And welcome back, and it's the part of the show which our regular listeners know is our favorite part of the show. It's Pick of the Week.
Phil?
Phil? Sorry, was I supposed to say something?
Do you listen to the show, Phil? Let's be honest.
I've listened to one. What? I'm a busy man.
What do you mean you're a busy man? You can listen to it.
I have a busy career and lots of children.
Okay, Phil, look, the rule of this section of the show is that you have to say Pick of the Week.
Okay.
Right now? Oh my goodness, well, I just didn't know if you were going to run it in.
From the top. Pick of the Week.
Pick of the Week.
Hey, so in Pick of the Week, we choose something which has tickled our fancy, a funny story, a book that we've read, a TV show, a movie, a record, an app, a website, a podcast, whatever.
Doesn't have to be security related— shouldn't be. But, well, you know, doesn't have to be.
And my Pick of the Week this week is the— now I don't know if it's pronounced Wildergon or Wildergon— coloring posters.
I want you to travel back in time and imagine a little boy with bushy eyebrows lying on his parents' carpet with some felt tips and filling in this wonderful, fantastical— actually, Phil, you would love this because you like all that fantasy stuff.
These are really cool. Not that— well, I don't know, maybe you do as well.
But anyway, these are some really cool black and white posters of sort of— it's Tolkien-esque almost kind of stuff.
And you have your little pot of pens and you can draw them in and they're very—
Doesn't have to be security related— shouldn't be. But, well, you know, doesn't have to be.
And my Pick of the Week this week is the— now I don't know if it's pronounced Wildergon or Wildergon— coloring posters.
I want you to travel back in time and imagine a little boy with bushy eyebrows lying on his parents' carpet with some felt tips and filling in this wonderful, fantastical— actually, Phil, you would love this because you like all that fantasy stuff.
These are really cool. Not that— well, I don't know, maybe you do as well.
But anyway, these are some really cool black and white posters of sort of— it's Tolkien-esque almost kind of stuff.
And you have your little pot of pens and you can draw them in and they're very—
Is this how you're becoming mindful? You're going to be doing a little bit of adult coloring books?
I actually love this. I, as you know, I love chess, but I also quite like to spend a little bit of quiet time away from the craziness doing a little bit of coloring in.
And I can recommend the Wilder Gorn coloring posters, and they have names like this, they have names like The Pog's Defense, Potter's Road, Tower Mine.
One for you too, the Gong Wizards.
And I can recommend the Wilder Gorn coloring posters, and they have names like this, they have names like The Pog's Defense, Potter's Road, Tower Mine.
One for you too, the Gong Wizards.
There you go. There you go. Can't go wrong with wizards.
Yeah. Well, I'm running out to get it. All right.
Well, no, check it out. Don't be so bloody rude. It's great. Anyway, I think it's great. Run by some old hippie, probably in the West Country of the UK.
And yeah, it's really cool and fun. And so I like doing them. And that is my pick of the week.
And yeah, it's really cool and fun. And so I like doing them. And that is my pick of the week.
Cool. Now, Phil, do you have a pick of the week?
I have a pick of the week which is especially for you, Graham. I think you will like this one.
You're probably aware that there is very, very soon going to be a new instance of Star Trek hitting the screens.
You're probably aware that there is very, very soon going to be a new instance of Star Trek hitting the screens.
Oh, for goodness' sake, I'm not a Star Trek fan.
But wait, it's going to get good.
This is Star Trek Discovery. I've heard about this, isn't it?
Star Trek Discovery coming to Netflix? I think it is on Netflix right now.
I think the first episode's just come out.
Yourself a fan, so obviously you've got to save some up for the—
Right, yep, that's true, that's true.
I've been guilty of that. And you can't get this in the States unfortunately, so any US listeners won't be able to take VPN.
Star Trek Discovery on Netflix comes complete with Klingon subtitles. No. Throughout. I love Klingon subtitles.
Star Trek Discovery on Netflix comes complete with Klingon subtitles. No. Throughout. I love Klingon subtitles.
Oh, that's so cool.
Can you speak any Klingon, Phil?
I can't speak Klingon because I am not a dedicated enough geek for that sort of thing.
Okay. Didn't you have a book that had the entire map of the Star Trek Enterprise?
I did. I had the Enterprise D blueprints. In book form. I've still got it somewhere, unless of course my wife has thrown it away.
There's a fairly good chance that she has, and you know, fair enough, frankly, because she's enough to put up with as it is. Okay.
Although I'm going to go home and see if I can find it.
There's a fairly good chance that she has, and you know, fair enough, frankly, because she's enough to put up with as it is. Okay.
Although I'm going to go home and see if I can find it.
I think we should declare an interest here, shouldn't we, Carole?
You in particular, because you did get Sophos, when we worked at Sophos, to produce a version of Sophos antivirus translated into Klingon.
You in particular, because you did get Sophos, when we worked at Sophos, to produce a version of Sophos antivirus translated into Klingon.
I did. I found a translator and he translated the entire file, all the strings.
And I remember I made a little video which may still be on YouTube unless copyright infringement have caught up with it, which was a demo of the product. It was great.
With YMCA being sung in Klingon in the background over it. That's right.
But as I remember, the way to swear in Klingon is to say, I don't know, you say something like, something like that. But what it means is your mother has a smooth forehead.
With YMCA being sung in Klingon in the background over it. That's right.
But as I remember, the way to swear in Klingon is to say, I don't know, you say something like, something like that. But what it means is your mother has a smooth forehead.
That's right. And that's why we got t-shirts made with that statement on it.
How dare you?
Funny.
Okay. So you haven't seen this show yet, but you love Star Trek, do you?
I've not seen it yet. No. Okay. But I'm looking forward to it. New Star Trek. That's kind of cool. When did the final one finish?
Phil, Phil, maybe before you watch all these new episodes of Star Trek, you could listen to some back episodes of Smashing Security, because if you got time for that rubbish—
I'm looking forward to it. I'm looking forward.
I suspect I know he's gonna listen to at least one more.
I don't know, it depends how it all goes.
Carole, what's your pick of the week? Chaka!
Poor people who love Klingon out there. I'm sorry. So this isn't new, but it is great. So if— of course it's great if you like smart, wacky cartoons for adults.
I don't mean porn, Graham. What I'm talking about is Rik and Morty. For those of you who know it, yay you, because it's great.
And those of you don't, you should check out Rik and Morty. Rik and Morty. Yeah.
I don't mean porn, Graham. What I'm talking about is Rik and Morty. For those of you who know it, yay you, because it's great.
And those of you don't, you should check out Rik and Morty. Rik and Morty. Yeah.
All right, never heard of it. So the—
Well, too bad for you. I'm gonna try and sell it to you, and if you don't go see it, then all I can say is idiot. So the general formula of the Rik and Morty show is this.
So on one side you have extremely selfish alcoholic genius asshole of a grandfather who's dragging around his nervy, morally centered grandson across space and getting caught into loads of intergalactic adventures.
Okay, so that's kind of one. Sounds brilliant so far.
So on one side you have extremely selfish alcoholic genius asshole of a grandfather who's dragging around his nervy, morally centered grandson across space and getting caught into loads of intergalactic adventures.
Okay, so that's kind of one. Sounds brilliant so far.
Yes, it's pretty cool.
It's kind of almost based off, there's so many show references from Back to the Future and all those. There's loads of them.
Now it's also set against the backdrop of this really painful everyday family dark domestic drama that's going on, where there's some drinking and there's divorce talk and there's fighting and there's in-laws and there's kids running away from home and school dances and girls and all this stuff.
And I don't know, the characters are just good. The story's dark, it's smart. And season 3 so far, wow. Anyway, so you can see it on streaming service.
I think Hulu and Netflix have it.
And if you're already totally caught up with Rik and Morty, as I have, you may want to go back to the beginning, which I have, or I will put a few more really good animations inside the notes you guys can check out.
Okay.
Now it's also set against the backdrop of this really painful everyday family dark domestic drama that's going on, where there's some drinking and there's divorce talk and there's fighting and there's in-laws and there's kids running away from home and school dances and girls and all this stuff.
And I don't know, the characters are just good. The story's dark, it's smart. And season 3 so far, wow. Anyway, so you can see it on streaming service.
I think Hulu and Netflix have it.
And if you're already totally caught up with Rik and Morty, as I have, you may want to go back to the beginning, which I have, or I will put a few more really good animations inside the notes you guys can check out.
Okay.
And you love this?
I love it. Love it. All right. In fact, it was— you know who told me about it was we had him on the show before, Michael Hucks, guy from PC Pit Stop. Oh, okay.
He's the one who said you might this and it's great.
He's the one who said you might this and it's great.
Well, his last recommendation was for that Red Pill movie and that was terribly good, wasn't it? That was awful. Good. Yeah, awful good.
Well, thank you very much, Carole, for that pick of the week. Maybe we'll go check that out. So, that just about rounds up the show, doesn't it? It does. Yeah.
If you want to find out more about us, go on to Twitter. We're at Smashing Security without a G, and we've got a Facebook group which you can get to smashingsecurity.com/facebook.
And maybe you want to support the show by buying a t-shirt before that imminent global thermonuclear war begins at smashingsecurity.com/store.
All that remains is we need to thank Phil Wood for joining us today. Thank you very much, Phil. My pleasure.
Well, thank you very much, Carole, for that pick of the week. Maybe we'll go check that out. So, that just about rounds up the show, doesn't it? It does. Yeah.
If you want to find out more about us, go on to Twitter. We're at Smashing Security without a G, and we've got a Facebook group which you can get to smashingsecurity.com/facebook.
And maybe you want to support the show by buying a t-shirt before that imminent global thermonuclear war begins at smashingsecurity.com/store.
All that remains is we need to thank Phil Wood for joining us today. Thank you very much, Phil. My pleasure.
Thank you for having me.
Is there anywhere people can follow you online? Do you do any of that? Are you Snapchatting? You know what, I don't really.
I mean, I'm on Twitter. I don't think I've ever used it.
I'm not a fan, especially. So surprise Phil by finding him on Twitter and following him.
Yeah, well, you know, you can go to Phil N Wood at Twitter.
How does that work? Oh my goodness gracious!
Unbelievable, isn't it? You know, I could discuss why I don't Twitter, but perhaps we're out of time.
No, tell us, we'll shove it on the end.
But if you want to go to talosintelligence.com, then you'll find a lot of nice useful information about malware.
Well, thank you everybody for tuning in.
If you know someone else who might like the Smashing Security podcast, please tell them about us and go to smashingsecurity.com for past episodes to get in touch.
Until next time, cheerio, bye-bye.
If you know someone else who might like the Smashing Security podcast, please tell them about us and go to smashingsecurity.com for past episodes to get in touch.
Until next time, cheerio, bye-bye.
Thanks for listening. Phil?
Phil? Are you dead? Phil? Phil? Phil?
Bye-bye.
Cute. Cute.
I don't like Twitter because it has reduced public debate to the declaration, basically.
It's, you know, you can't— there's no nuance in 140 characters, and I think a lot of people get very cross when they aren't able to, you know, hear a full explanation.
And I find it of little use. So, yeah. Do you know what the real reason is? I don't get it. I'm too old.
I looked at it and, as I say, it just bewildered me and I thought, you know what? Dotard.
It's, you know, you can't— there's no nuance in 140 characters, and I think a lot of people get very cross when they aren't able to, you know, hear a full explanation.
And I find it of little use. So, yeah. Do you know what the real reason is? I don't get it. I'm too old.
I looked at it and, as I say, it just bewildered me and I thought, you know what? Dotard.
Hosts:
Graham Cluley:
@grahamcluley.com
@
/ grahamcluley
Carole Theriault:
Guest:
Phil Wood
Thanks to our sponsor:
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Sign up for free daily threat intelligence updates at recordedfuture.com/intel
Thanks to Recorded Future for their support.
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